Hayden to go to Ducati?

.OrgOwner · 04-21-2008, 1:10 AM

Nicky Hayden to go with Ducati perahps?

Quote:

Conflicting reports are emerging from Italy about the future of Nicky Hayden in MotoGP. On the one hand, we have MotoGrandPrix.it, who are reporting that Hayden is close to signing a new 2-year contract with Repsol Honda

Other reports say that Hayden will make way for either Andrea Dovizioso or Marco Melandri.

By this theory, Hayden could then take Melandri's place on the vacant Ducati seat. Ducati are known to be very keen on the American, and the theory runs that Hayden's background in dirt track could help the Kentucky Kid tame the Ducati where Italian riders have failed.

And this - Casey Stoner came originally from a dirt track background, and is known to use a lot of back brake to keep the bike stable through corners. Alex Hofmann, who saw Stoner's data during his year riding at the D'Antin Ducati team, was astonished at just how much rear brake Stoner uses, sometimes generating huge forces through the pedal.

MACI4LIFE · 04-21-2008, 8:07 AM

He should go back to AMA.

fl-929 · 04-21-2008, 8:10 AM

I would be surprised if he signed with Honda again - at least the number one team.

deez · 04-21-2008, 11:33 AM

Repsol is the premier team in the field, and has been for a long time. Hayden has like what, 3 wins (2 of them home turf, one was given to him by Edwards) in how many years of GP? This is his 6th year in GP's and he has definitely earned a spot somewhere, but he hasn't done anything worth holding on to one of the best seats in GP. Let Dovi have that seat, he'll do more with it.

nedro · 04-21-2008, 1:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .OrgOwner

Nicky Hayden to go with Ducati perahps?

By this theory, Hayden could then take Melandri's place on the vacant Ducati seat. Ducati are known to be very keen on the American, and the theory runs that Hayden's background in dirt track could help the Kentucky Kid tame the Ducati where Italian riders have failed.

The only thing that Ducati has failed at is to actually sign an Itallian! At least one of the front runners.
I don't see Hayden at Repsol next year. After all, Honda forced Hayden down Repsol's neck. Repsol has done everything they could to discredit the young American. And it seems they've succeded.
It'd be nice to see him on a Ducati, but I'm thinking that Hayden will be the odd man out at the begining of next year's MotoGP season.

slickwill · 04-21-2008, 2:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nedro

It'd be nice to see him on a Ducati, but I'm thinking that Hayden will be the odd man out at the begining of next year's MotoGP season.

That's a scary prediction. I'd just like to see him with a team that actually wants him there and is willing to help him win rather than treat him like a number three rider on a two rider team.

lanbrown · 04-21-2008, 2:22 PM

Hayden only did something on a bike that was already developed. When the new bike came out that he played a part in, it just didn’t perform. Not every rider is also a development rider. Rossi is one, as is Edwards. Put him on a developed bike and he does fine, put him on a bike that needs development and he starts having issues.

Hayden was a big fish in a small pond in the AMA. In MotoGP he is a small fish in a big pond.

It is time for him to move along.

slickwill · 04-21-2008, 5:16 PM

I think the problem with the "undeveloped" bike is that they sized it and built it to suit the preferences of the podbot. Honda left Hayden hung out to dry on that one.

bettingpython · 04-21-2008, 5:41 PM

Honda admited that they were engineering the bike to fit and suit pedrosa even after hayden won them a GP championship, I hope hayden signs to a team that wants him.

lanbrown · 04-21-2008, 6:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slickwill

I think the problem with the "undeveloped" bike is that they sized it and built it to suit the preferences of the podbot. Honda left Hayden hung out to dry on that one.

That is BS. On another forum I posted the size of BOTH bikes and they are near identical in size. It is time to face the facts, Hayden is not what you think he is. He was also the first to work with the new bike.

Here you go:
"RC212V:
Technical SpecificationsOverall length (mm) 2050
Overall width (mm) 645
Overall height (mm) 1125
Wheelbase (mm) 1440
Road clearance (mm) 125
Weight (kg) over 148kg
Engine type liquid-cooled four-stroke DOHC 4 valve V-4
Displacement (cc) 800
Maximum power N/A
Frame type twin-tube
Front Wheels (inch) 16.5
Rear Wheels (inch) 16.5
Front Suspension Telescopic fork
Rear Suspension New Unit Pro-link
Fuel tank capacity (litre) 21
Honda Worldwide | October 31, 2006 "RC212V Unveiling"

RC211V:
Honda RC211V

Overall Length (mm) 2,050
Overall width (mm) 645
Overall height (mm) 1,130
Wheelbase (mm) 1,440
Road Clearance (mm) 130
Weight (kg) Over 148
Engine Type Liquid-cooled, Four-stroke, DOHC 4 Value, V-5
Displacement (cc) 990
Max Power (PS) Over 240
Frame Type Twin-tube
Tire size(inch) Front 17
Rear 16.5
Suspension Front Telescopic
Rear New Unit Pro-link
Fuel Tank Capacity (L) 22
Honda Worldwide | Motor Sports | WGP | Spec

So the length is the same. The width is the same. The wheelbase is the same. The height is 5mm shorter. The ground clearance is 5mm lower. Wow, HRC made a bike with almost the same dimensions for a smaller rider. Get real, as you can see the specs above are from Honda as I provided the links and you can see it in black and white. The bikes are nearly identical. I guess that knocks your legs out from under you now doesn’t it?

Just for fun, let’s look at other bikes:
Honda Worldwide | World News | News Release | January 14, 1999
NSR500 NSR500VNSR250RVF/RC45RC250M/CR250M RTL
Overall Length (mm) 2,010 1,960 1,950 2,020 2,180 2,000
Overall Width (mm) 600 600 590 600 835 800
Overall Height (mm) 1,080 1,060 1,050 1,100 1,260 1,100
Wheelbase (mm) 1,400 1,350 1,340 1,410 1,490 1,330
Ground Clearance (mm) 105 105 105 105 370 Approx. 300
Weight (kg) Approx. 131 Approx. 101 Approx. 96 Approx. 162 Approx. 98 Approx. 72.5
Engine Type Liquid-cooled Liquid-cooled Liquid-cooled Liquid-cooled Liquid-cooled Liquid-cooled
2-stroke 2-stroke 2-stroke 4-stroke 2-stroke 2-stroke
Case reed valve Case reed valve Case reed valve 4-valve Piston reed valve Case reed valve
V-4 V-2 V-2 V-4 Single cylinder Single cylinder
Displacement (cc) 499 499 249 749 249 -
Max. Power (PS) Approx. 180 Approx. 135 Approx. 90 Approx. 175 Approx. 55.5 -
Frame Type Twin-spar Twin-spar Twin-spar Twin-spar Twin-spar Twin-spar
Wheels (inch) Front 17 17 17 17 21 21
Rear 17 17 17 17 19 18
Suspension Front Telescopic Telescopic Telescopic Telescopic Telescopic Telescopic
Rear Pro-Link Pro-Link,
Pro-Arm Pro-Link Pro-Link Pro-Link Pro-Link
Fuel Tank Capacity (l) 32 26 22 24 7.5 -

Look at that, the NSR was even smaller. I guess HRC made a bike for Pedro before he was even employed by HRC!"

spiral · 04-22-2008, 10:16 AM

I think the Ducati would suit Hayden, and Hayden would suit Ducatis american ambitions!!!!!.

I would prefer to see a guy like Dovi on the repsol honda, not Melandri he has proved he can't really do it consistently!!!

nedro · 04-22-2008, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lanbrown

That is BS. On another forum I posted the size of BOTH bikes and they are near identical in size. It is time to face the facts, Hayden is not what you think he is. He was also the first to work with the new bike.

Here you go:
"RC212V:
Technical SpecificationsOverall length (mm) 2050
Overall width (mm) 645
Overall height (mm) 1125
Wheelbase (mm) 1440
Road clearance (mm) 125
Weight (kg) over 148kg
Engine type liquid-cooled four-stroke DOHC 4 valve V-4
Displacement (cc) 800
Maximum power N/A
Frame type twin-tube
Front Wheels (inch) 16.5
Rear Wheels (inch) 16.5
Front Suspension Telescopic fork
Rear Suspension New Unit Pro-link
Fuel tank capacity (litre) 21
Honda Worldwide | October 31, 2006 "RC212V Unveiling"

RC211V:
Honda RC211V

Overall Length (mm) 2,050
Overall width (mm) 645
Overall height (mm) 1,130
Wheelbase (mm) 1,440
Road Clearance (mm) 130
Weight (kg) Over 148
Engine Type Liquid-cooled, Four-stroke, DOHC 4 Value, V-5
Displacement (cc) 990
Max Power (PS) Over 240
Frame Type Twin-tube
Tire size(inch) Front 17
Rear 16.5
Suspension Front Telescopic
Rear New Unit Pro-link
Fuel Tank Capacity (L) 22
Honda Worldwide | Motor Sports | WGP | Spec

So the length is the same. The width is the same. The wheelbase is the same. The height is 5mm shorter. The ground clearance is 5mm lower. Wow, HRC made a bike with almost the same dimensions for a smaller rider. Get real, as you can see the specs above are from Honda as I provided the links and you can see it in black and white. The bikes are nearly identical. I guess that knocks your legs out from under you now doesn’t it?

Just for fun, let’s look at other bikes:
Honda Worldwide | World News | News Release | January 14, 1999
NSR500 NSR500VNSR250RVF/RC45RC250M/CR250M RTL
Overall Length (mm) 2,010 1,960 1,950 2,020 2,180 2,000
Overall Width (mm) 600 600 590 600 835 800
Overall Height (mm) 1,080 1,060 1,050 1,100 1,260 1,100
Wheelbase (mm) 1,400 1,350 1,340 1,410 1,490 1,330
Ground Clearance (mm) 105 105 105 105 370 Approx. 300
Weight (kg) Approx. 131 Approx. 101 Approx. 96 Approx. 162 Approx. 98 Approx. 72.5
Engine Type Liquid-cooled Liquid-cooled Liquid-cooled Liquid-cooled Liquid-cooled Liquid-cooled
2-stroke 2-stroke 2-stroke 4-stroke 2-stroke 2-stroke
Case reed valve Case reed valve Case reed valve 4-valve Piston reed valve Case reed valve
V-4 V-2 V-2 V-4 Single cylinder Single cylinder
Displacement (cc) 499 499 249 749 249 -
Max. Power (PS) Approx. 180 Approx. 135 Approx. 90 Approx. 175 Approx. 55.5 -
Frame Type Twin-spar Twin-spar Twin-spar Twin-spar Twin-spar Twin-spar
Wheels (inch) Front 17 17 17 17 21 21
Rear 17 17 17 17 19 18
Suspension Front Telescopic Telescopic Telescopic Telescopic Telescopic Telescopic
Rear Pro-Link Pro-Link,
Pro-Arm Pro-Link Pro-Link Pro-Link Pro-Link
Fuel Tank Capacity (l) 32 26 22 24 7.5 -

Look at that, the NSR was even smaller. I guess HRC made a bike for Pedro before he was even employed by HRC!"

Well, the one thing we all know now is that you know how to cut and paste.
But I don't and never will be able to see their steering geometry, spring rates, valve rates, trail and rake. You know, the little things that make or break you.

chukky · 04-22-2008, 10:46 AM

Lanbrown I think you are one of those people that likes to hear yourself talk.Those specs mean nothing.There are lots of other things that you have not listed in your ''specs'' that can make a huge difference to a riders confidence and compatibility with a bike.Traction control,electronics etc.I personally would like to see Hayden on a Duke riding the s**t out of that little wipmp pedrosa
Cheers
Chukky

lanbrown · 04-22-2008, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nedro

Well, the one thing we all know now is that you know how to cut and paste.
But I don't and never will be able to see their steering geometry, spring rates, valve rates, trail and rake. You know, the little things that make or break you.

Why type what I already typed before? Spring rates will vary depending on the track and rider as are the valve rates. The race bikes usually have some adjustment in terms of geometry. You know, all the little things.

People keep bringing up that the bike is too small for him; well Doohan was taller and he was on an smaller bike. The RC211V and the RC212V are about the same exact size.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chukky

Lanbrown I think you are one of those people that likes to hear yourself talk.Those specs mean nothing.There are lots of other things that you have not listed in your ''specs'' that can make a huge difference to a riders confidence and compatibility with a bike.Traction control,electronics etc.I personally would like to see Hayden on a Duke riding the s**t out of that little wipmp pedrosa
Cheers
Chukky

People make excuses for Nicky. It was the bike is too small; see above. How did Doohan get by on an even smaller bike? So the facts show the bike is not smaller. So then people start making other excuses for Nicky, just like you are. Electronics are adjustable and it would be his crew chief to get them right. Traction control would be part of the electronics.

The RC211V was never designed for him. He won on it because it was a developed bike. The RC212V was not developed and he struggled with it. He is also not a development rider so he didn't get the parts first. As has been said before, Nicky is not a development rider; not eveyone is.

Face it, Nicky is a good rider, but not a great rider. If he went back to the AMA he would be a star again. He will never be a star in GP.

bettingpython · 04-22-2008, 12:01 PM

One of nicky's issues is the change in riding style, to keep the momentum up you don't have as much motor as you did in the past so now riders who can carry more speed in the turns are shining. You can see it watching the races and you can see Lorenzo is on the ragged edge all the time, Nicky doesn't stand a chance he will be a good consistent finnisher but a championship I do not see in his near future no matter where he goes. His only hope to really shine in GP is to relearn how to ride.

slickwill · 04-22-2008, 2:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bettingpython

One of nicky's issues is the change in riding style, to keep the momentum up you don't have as much motor as you did in the past so now riders who can carry more speed in the turns are shining. You can see it watching the races and you can see Lorenzo is on the ragged edge all the time, Nicky doesn't stand a chance he will be a good consistent finnisher but a championship I do not see in his near future no matter where he goes. His only hope to really shine in GP is to relearn how to ride.

Yep, that's the much bigger issue here. The game changed with the switch to the 800cc bikes. The little 60kg 250 riders learned a different style by coming up through the GP minor leagues.

madkaw · 04-22-2008, 2:55 PM

I think Hayden should go the Biaggi and Bayliss route and go to WSB. Come to think of it, Edwards and Hopkins should go to WSB too!

bettingpython · 04-22-2008, 3:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madkaw

I think Hayden should go the Biaggi and Bayliss route and go to WSB. Come to think of it, Edwards and Hopkins should go to WSB too!

Yeah but can the handle the beat down of a WSBK race

I like watching Toseland in GP he just goes in their and bashes paint and rubs ellbows with the GP guys and scares the crap out of them.

nedro · 04-22-2008, 4:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bettingpython

Yeah but can the handle the beat down of a WSBK race

I like watching Toseland in GP he just goes in their and bashes paint and rubs ellbows with the GP guys and scares the crap out of them.

I would say that it more annoys them, than anything else. But the Tosser isn't running up front, so who cares?

nedro · 04-22-2008, 4:36 PM

Lanbrown, yes, some adjustments, but the package was make for only one of the two Repsol riders, and Honda never hid that fact.
Also, you're going to compare 2 strokes to today's four strokes? Even my puny brain knows you can't do that.

bettingpython · 04-22-2008, 4:48 PM

I think we will see toseland come into his own in GP in the next few years. Riding for a support team means he is not getting the A list equipment like Val.

and Lanbrown even HRC came out and publicly stated that the new 800 was developed to suit Pedrosa and not Hayden. Many of Haydens design input observations on what would make the bike better for him were ignored. HRC has provided him with a slightly different chassis but he was running last years motor the first 2 races and although he didn't do great he didn't do as bad as he did in 07.

lanbrown · 04-22-2008, 5:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bettingpython

I think we will see toseland come into his own in GP in the next few years. Riding for a support team means he is not getting the A list equipment like Val.

and Lanbrown even HRC came out and publicly stated that the new 800 was developed to suit Pedrosa and not Hayden. Many of Haydens design input observations on what would make the bike better for him were ignored. HRC has provided him with a slightly different chassis but he was running last years motor the first 2 races and although he didn't do great he didn't do as bad as he did in 07.

Not his height, as both bikes are very similar in size. The RC211V was not designed for Hayden either. So what is his excuse? It can't be that the bike was designed for Pedrossa. The RC211V was designed for who? The NSR500 was designed for Doohan and Rossi made it work for him. See a theme? A great rider can make the bike work for them, a good rider needs the right bike. Hayden can win on the right bike.

nedro · 04-22-2008, 5:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lanbrown

Not his height, as both bikes are very similar in size. The RC211V was not designed for Hayden either. So what is his excuse? It can't be that the bike was designed for Pedrossa. The RC211V was designed for who? The NSR500 was designed for Doohan and Rossi made it work for him. See a theme?

No. Rossi came off a...wait....it's right here...oh ya, a two stroke...