[TKDmasterZ]

In this newspaper interview, Josh Hayes states that motorcycle manufacturers will be cut off from involvement of AMA racing, and a NASCAR-like series will be created. If this happends, motorcycle racing will be like football (called soccer here), which is the most popular global sport except for here in the US.

SunHerald.com : MOTORCYCLE CIRCUIT CHANGING DIRECTION

(I was directed to this article from Superbikeplanet.com)

[BALDGONZO]

Well, i'm not sure how it relates to soccer (football), but i guess if they are all on evenly mached bikes the best rider will win. The best riders seem to win now but maby they won't be lapping the privateers so quickly.

[nedro]

IROC was cool for the first race or two, but by the end of the first season, it was headed out the door as far as Prime time racing was conserned. NASCAR ruined stock car racing and it looks like it wants to do the same thing on a smaller scale to AMA.

[Bobcat Sig]

I saw this same article and was wondering the same thing.

Really, it pisses me off. One of the reasons why I love motorcycle racing is because of the technology and work that goes into those bikes. Sure, watching the Yosh-Suzuki's blow the doors off of everyone isn't fun. But the development and tech that goes into those bikes (and that will hopefully trickle down to production bikes) is cool. I know that eventually a another manufacturer/rider will come to challenge Mladin and Spies, and when that happens, it will be awesome.

If I want 18 of the same vehicle racing around the track, I'll watch NASCAR. Sure, "the best rider/driver will win" is fine, but again, I'll leave that to the super speedway folk. And I do respect NASCAR's plan and turning racing in entertainment, but I just don't think that will port over to AMA, let alone any sort of motorcycling. For me, the racing IS the entertainment. And when compared to NASCAR, that type of racing is really boring. My room mate watches it and I can't STAND to watch it.

So as sad as it is to say this, and after learning more about what DMG plans to do to AMA racing, I think it is going to be detrimental to motorcycle racing here in the States ...

[rokitt51]

So long to the trickle down effect. NASCAR will have us all screwwed.

[ozthis]

I understand the logic...who wants to watch Miladen win every race by huge distances. I pretty much quit watching AMA for this reason. I would like some sort more spec racing but not to the extreme of nascrap. When WSBK went to the spec tire the racing has become some of the best there is...I prefer WSBK to even Moto GP for this reason....just my

[rokitt51]

I dont think that it is just because MM is that good, i think that he is just on some equipment that is better than most of the rest. There is someone that one of the Companies can put on a bike that can surpass others in the field, they just havent been found yet. If anything, just put everyone on the same tires and thats it.

[ptlcb1]

Its the combination of Matt Mladin and the Suzuki. Mladin is good, no doubt about that. He has been on that bike for so long, that its an extension of himself. Thats a tough combination to beat! Its been built for him. Its like taking your car to a custom shop and getting it modded the way you want it! He just is not spending his own money... Time will tell whether or not the AMA will improve or not regarding its entertainment value...

[jkobflys]

DMG LOT'S OF REASONS

[Bobcat Sig]

Originally Posted by ozthis

I understand the logic...who wants to watch Miladen win every race by huge distances. I pretty much quit watching AMA for this reason. I would like some sort more spec racing but not to the extreme of nascrap. When WSBK went to the spec tire the racing has become some of the best there is...I prefer WSBK to even Moto GP for this reason....just my

Oh, I agree. AMA isn't fun to watch. But that doesn't mean I'm still not a fan of it. And yes, WSBK has some GREAT battles and its fun to see how far these teams go with production bikes. So for that; it is terrific. But I also love MotoGP for the pure technology and prototype mentality.

In a perfect world, AMA would have tried a spec tire rule or some other (but minor) rule change to tighten the field. However, it could be said that Suzuki has just dumped more money into their bikes than the other of the big four - hence their LARGE margin of victory.

Regardless, I'm going to see an AMA race this year, before the rules changes!

[TKDmasterZ]

Spec tires for AMA...hmm... Don't 90% of riders use Dunlops?

[Bobcat Sig]

Originally Posted by TKDmasterZ

Spec tires for AMA...hmm... Don't 90% of riders use Dunlops?

Perhaps. But that wasn't the point ... it was merely for example of what a spec rule might do for the now lopsided AMA Superbikes.

[ozthis]

Originally Posted by Bobcat Sig

Perhaps. But that wasn't the point ... it was merely for example of what a spec rule might do for the now lopsided AMA Superbikes.

sooo true...something needs to be done i dont know what but something ....just to make it more of a race.

[Carolina_954]

This is a truly bad idea. Anyone who watches nascar knows that the team that has the most money to spend wins races and championships. Regardless of driver or manufacturer ( not that those cars have anything to do with the cars they are named after). If you want to see real racing where skill comes into play, put a cap on the amount of money a team can spend in a year on bikes, transport, R&D etc... How many guys do you think are out there that just can't get the right ride to show what they can do. When all the bikes are truly equal, then and only then will we see who the real riders are. This would also do exactly what the article says they are trying to do. While the privateers probably still wouldn't compete, this would allow for a more level playing field, and would allow the up and coming talent to be noticed easier.

[rokitt51]

Yeah the money cap sounds like a good idea. then its all about pickin the right performance parts for the specific tracks.

[blue1000rr]

so if they were to do this would it seriously hurt the privateers out there? because as you all know you really cant race in nascar unless you are seriously backed, so would it do the same to our sport. i couldnt get the link to work so i didnt read the artical

[jkobflys]

ok....
whell if all the bikes are the same and then, and only then. will we see who the real talent is, the way it is, is the way you see, the real talent.
The fastest guy on the fastest bike= A better, Faster, lighter, developed streetbike.
Like Moto Gp R&D does for Honda in the 07 CBR600RR, and the new CBR1000RR, AMA has done for Suzuki in the GSXR's 750 and 1000 models.
I'ts my opinion that you cant just hand Maladins bike to any other rider (Excluding Spies) and expect them to do te same things with it.
so if you cap the bikes development by having the same rules or perspective of nascrap you will end up with a S*@! load of pilots and a bunch of the same bikes... How many models can you get from the Big mfg'rs. in nascrap that are actualy the high performance models you can buy as a street car?
I dont think that AMA racing will ever gross the profits that nascrap brings in just only on ratings revenue, but in my opinion, and only my opinion, maybe it's not suposed to, I'd like to beilive that Motorcycle racing it's still purer than just any other billboard.

[skwyd]

It has been said over and over that the manufacturer has all of the edge. They have codes to access parts of the EMU that only they have access to. They can run thinner metals through the same machines to get lighter parts, they can have a special blends of alloys used for a production run of parts that only find their way into the factory bikes, which are lighter, stronger, or both. They just have the edge and it is nothing more than business and ethics. NASCAR originally was started as a race against bootleggers and moonshiners on oval dirt courses, then it expanded and came to include road courses. Later big business go their hands on it and decided it would be only for the ultra rich to use for beer comercials. That same group now runs the marketing for AMA... as long as the powers that be dont let them take over the decision making for Rules and Racing in general there is still hope for our sport. I cant think of anything worse than turning our beloved road racing into a circle track race.

[TKDmasterZ]

I remember a point made by the previous AMA VP that the traditional AMA series was geared toward and designed for the enthusiasts. NASCAR is the opposite, for the general public.

And for sure, you can't compare the potential revenue between the two.

In Europe, the general public loves the sport. Not in the US. If these guys are true business men, they will go for what appeals to the masses, in order to bring in ultra rich sponsorships. And it sounds like that'll definitely change the AMA racing as we know it. We'll just have to wait and see people like us (the enthusiasts) can accept and even like the new series. Who knows?

I just hope that it doesn't go around in circles...

[Bobcat Sig]

If you go and re-read that article about Hayes saying that the old days of AMA are over, you'll see in there a brief over view of the rules change.

So while some of had held out hope that the rules wouldn't change for the worse - they have.

[jkobflys]

BOOM: Mladin Unloads On DMG & '09 Series
by dean adams
Saturday, May 17, 2008
Six-time Superbike champion Mat Mladin has been simmering about the Daytona Motorsports Group take-over of the series for some time and today, on the podium at Infineon, Mladin anger boiled over.
From the podium, Mladin said into the track PA system that the fans of the series should "speak up now" so they won't have to see a series populated by "piece of crap motorcycles and second-rate riders".
Mladin said he had listened to hours of "propaganda" about the new series at the track and he was tired of it. "Speak up now," he implored, "so you'll be able to see top riders on the best bikes."
"Hopefully we'll be back next year," Mladin said.

[TKDmasterZ]

This is the response from AMA's Edmondson on Mladin's comments:

Soup :: Edmondson Offers More Details Of DMG 2009 US Series :: 05-20-2008

[jkobflys]

edmondson=

[Surffrog]

I'd like to know just who these so-called Europeans are that like the idea. I note that he doesn't say. Guys, you better believe it, they'll all be riding around in circles within 2/3 years

[jkobflys]

This just in from Daytona Motorsports Group:
Daytona Motorsports Group
Daytona Superbike Equipment Rules and Regulations
All machines eligible for participation in Daytona Superbike must be approved by AMA Pro Racing and homologated by the manufacturer. Approval of homologation will require acontingency awards program that rewards the first five finishers competing on the homologated machine, by brand and model. Machines currently eligible for homologation by their manufacturer or distributor for competition in 2009 are:
Aprilia Tuono
BMW HP2 Sport
Buell 1125R
Ducati 848
Ducati S4R
Honda CBR600RR
Kawasaki Ninja ZX-6R
KTM Super Duke
MV Brutale 910S
Suzuki GSX-R750
Suzuki GSX-R600
Triumph Daytona 675
Yamaha YZF-R6

> Each homologated machine will have a published Technical Information Form (TIF) containing the AMA approved specifications required for competition. Specifications will include, but not be limited to make, model, year, original displacement, and special allowances (if any) for this specific homologated machine. The original TIF may be modified to enhance or reduce the performance of the machine based upon actual competition experience.

Unless otherwise specified, all parts must originate from the same make/model as the homologated machine, meaning no up-dating or back-dating is permitted

1. HORSEPOWER AND WEIGHT LIMITS

A. Minimum weight is 360 lbs in the exact condition the machine finishes any competition activity (qualifying or race final) without the addition of fluids or other items of any kind.

B. Once the machine weight has been established, the motorcycle will be tested for power output on the official series dynamometer. Power is limited to one (1) horsepower for every three (3) pounds of machine weight, up to a maximum of 140 horsepower. Fuel may be added to allow for the dynamometer testing after the official weight has been recorded.

C. In no case may more than 25 lbs of ballast be added to any machine, said ballast to be added/fastened in accordance with approved mounting procedures.

D. If necessary, specific motorcycles may be allowed a variance from the standard power to weight ratio to ensure parity in competition. Where such variances are allowed, they will be published on the TIF for the machines affected.

E. Combined motorcycle and rider weights will be used to determine power limits starting in the 2010 season.

2. TIRES

A. XXXXXX is the Official Tire of AMA Pro Road Racing and only tires produced by XXXX and mounted at the meet may be used in competition.

B. The number of available compounds, configurations, and quantities available for use at each event will be announced coincident with the announcement of the Official Tire of the series and may be altered during the course of the 2009 season per safety, wear and related experience.

3. FUEL

A. Official Fuel - The Official Fuel of AMA Pro Racing is XXXXXXXX and its exclusive use in unadulterated form shall be mandatory.

B. Only air may be mixed with the fuel as an oxidant, and no other substances, chemicals and/or liquids whatsoever shall be added, combined, mixed and/or introduced to said Official Fuel whether intentionally or unintentionally unless approved in advance in writing by the AMA for use by all competitors.

C. All competitors must use the official fuel, as supplied by the manufacturer at the track, during all on-track sessions.

D. All motorcycles must prominently display the appropriate unmodified official fuel company decal on the motorcycle at all times.

E. AMA Pro Racing has the right to sample a competitor's fuel at any time.

F. Competitors are responsible for the safe and proper handling and security of their fuel from when it is dispensed to them until it is used.

G. Competitors are responsible for properly disposing of all unused fuel.

4. WHEELS/BRAKES

A. Wheels must appear on the Eligible Equipment List.

(1)Front wheels = 17" x 3.5" all machines

(2)Rear wheels = 17" x 5.5" or 17" x 6" (See TIF for each machine)

B. Brake calipers may be substituted by homologated units appearing on the Eligible Equipment List.

C. Aftermarket brake pads and lines may be substituted by homologated units appearing on the Eligible Equipment List..

D. The brake master cylinders may be substituted by homologated units appearing on the Eligible Equipment List.

E. The brake rotors may be substituted by homologated units appearing on the Eligible Equipment List as long as the rotors are the same size (diameter) as the OEM equipment being replaced. Caliper mounts and hangers, front and rear, may not be modified or substituted.

F. With approval of the Technical Inspector, front wheel spacers may be made "captive".

G. With approval of the Technical Inspector, rear wheel spacers may be made "captive", and a caliper retaining device may be used. Chain adjuster must be OEM.

5. FRONT SUSPENSION

A. Original front forks must be retained, including inner and outer tubes, fork bottoms, caliper mounts, axles and spacers. (Aftermarket coatings are allowed to maximum thickness of 0.1mm).

B. Aftermarket 25mm Cartridge kits appearing on the Eligible Equipment List are permitted and aftermarket fork caps may be substituted.

C. A steering damper may be installed with a homologated unit appearing on the Eligible Equipment List.

D. A fork brace may be installed with a homologated unit appearing on the Eligible Equipment List.

E. Triple Clamps may be substituted with a homologated unit appearing on the Eligible Equipment List.

F. Front suspension modifications are limited to:

(1)Internal parts may be modified consistent and within the foregoing restrictions, including substitution of springs, change of shims and/or spacers, and addition of "Race Tech" kit/aftermarket type valving units appearing on the Eligible Equipment List.

(2)External Compression Adjusters may be modified/changed.

(3)Steering Head inserts to adjust rake may be used as long as no part of the frame is modified.

6. REAR SUSPENSION

A. The original model, stock swingarm must be retained, unchanged, except that the axle adjustment opening/slot may be lengthened, with the permission of the Tech. Inspector.

B. The rear shock linkage may be substituted with a homologated unit appearing on the Eligible Equipment List.

C. The rear shock may be modified or replaced by units appearing on the Eligible Equipment List.

7. FRAME/ADJUSTABLE PIVOT/DATA ACQUISITION

A. Unless otherwise provided for on the TIF, the original frame must be used. Unnecessary brackets may be removed.

B. Adjustable swingarm pivots are permitted, but no modifications to the frame or swingarm can be made to allow this adjustability.

C. Data acquisition for chassis and/or suspension is permitted utilizing systems on the Eligible Equipment List.

(1)Data acquisition is only permitted as "one way", meaning a gathering system that can receive and/or collect but not transmit.

8. BODYWORK/CONTROLS/APPEARANCE

A. Aftermarket, OEM-style bodywork and custom fairing mounts may be used. B. The fairing must match the shape of the OEM machine in silhouette and profile and the AMA shall have the right to use templates and go-no-go devices therefor. 1) An oil retaining, "sealed" lower fairing is mandatory.

C. The stock gas tank must be used, but aftermarket gas caps are allowed. For races requiring re-fueling, a dry brake system must be installed.

D. A front fender must be mounted.

E. Aftermarket footpegs, clip-on bars, shift/brake mechanisms and fasteners may be used.

F. Non-standard "Kill Switches" must not be spring loaded and must be well marked.

G. Titanium Fasteners are not permitted.

H. Tail sections may be increased in size to allow for required number display. Final approval rests with the Chief Technical Inspector.

(1)The AMA and/or the organizers retain the right to require number plates on machines with small or unusually sized or shaped tail sections.

I. Numbers must be a minimum of 8 inches high and in a clear contrasting color to the background area on which they are displayed.

9. ENGINE MODIFICATIONS are unlimited, except for the following:

A. Bore and Stroke must remain as stock.

B. Valve sizes must remain as stock.

C. Stock cases, barrels, and cylinder heads must be used, but may be altered.

D. Stock carb bodies or stock fuel injection systems must be used, but carb internals, velocity stacks and injection management systems may be altered or replaced.

E. Injectors must be stock and unaltered from the original specification and manufacture.

F. Aftermarket exhaust systems appearing on the Eligible Equipment List may be installed.

G. Dyno-jet or kit-type Electronic "quick shifters" are allowed. Manual "secondary" hand operated kill switch/quick shifters are not allowed.

H. Clutch actuation may be modified to a racing "kit" type.

I. "Dry Clutches" are only permitted when used on the equivalent OE production model.

J. Aftermarket "Slipper" clutches appearing on the Eligible Equipment List are permitted.

K. Approved Engine Control Unit must be used without any modification whatsoever to the approved configuration. Series provided Engine Control Units may be required in 2010 and beyond.

10.AIR BOX/INTAKE/SCOOPS

A. An air box is required.

B. An air filter is not required.

C. Larger air boxes may be fitted, but the stock tank and tank placement/mounts must be maintained and used.

D. Ram air systems are permitted if specified and used on the homologated motorcycle. Ducts and scoops, must be identical in specification to the original equipment system.

11.POST QUALIFYING/POST RACE TECH

A. Immediately following each qualifying session or race, the top three finishers plus other motorcycles chosen at random at the discretion of the AMA will be tested on the Official Series Dynamometer to verify power.

B. Other than the motorcycle's throttle/twist grip, switches or any other device and/ or methodology designed to and/or having the ability or potential to affect the horsepower readings during dynamometer testing are strictly prohibited.

C. Any entrant, rider, crew member and/or entrant affiliate (who are not manufacturers of homologated motorcycles), who attempts to and/or does alter the performance of his/her/their machine following any competition event, in an effort to affect the dynamometer or weight results, will be disqualified from the meet and suspended from AMA Pro Road Racing participation for a period of no less than one year, and assessed a $50,000.00 fine which must be paid in full before reinstatement. A second offense will result in a lifetime ban for the offending entrant and/or entity.

D. Any entrant, entrant affiliate and/or contractor who is/are manufacturers of homologated motorcycles, who attempts to and/or does alter the performance of its/their machine following any competition event, in an effort to affect the dynamometer or weight results, will be disqualified from the meet and suspended from AMA Pro Road Racing participation for a period of no less than one year, and assessed a $250,000.00 fine which must be paid in full before reinstatement.

A second offense will result in a loss of approval for the homologated machine used in the meet where the offense took place, thereby rendering it ineligible for use by any and all entrants for a period of twelve (12) months..

E. Machines unable to make post qualifying or post race tech and complete their dynamometer runs for any reasons, including major crashes or major mechanical failures will be penalized. Reasonable allowances may/will be made for minor mechanical failures that can be repaired, under strict supervision, in a reasonable amount of time and that do not have any bearing on performance or weight. Reasonable allowances may/will also be made for minor crashes on machines that can be ridden back to pit lane. Determination of 'minor' will be at the sole discretion of the Tech Inspector.

F. In the instance where a motorcycle on the post-race dynamometer produces one run where that motorcycle registered within (but not more than) one horsepower in excess of the horsepower limit, that motorcycle will be re-tested at the end of that class/group, time allowing and at the request of the entrant. If that motorcycle again measures/tests any way in excess of the allowable horsepower limit , that machine will be penalized as per the Rule book. If that machine reads within the guidelines in the dynamometer re-do, no penalty will be assessed.

G. Motorcycle weights will be checked immediately following qualifying or races, in the same condition in which they finish the activity, including all fluids such as oil, water and fuel.

H. No fluid and/or any other item(s) may be added to the motorcycle prior to the determination of weight. Subsequent to official weight verification, fuel may be added for the purpose of completing the required dynamometer verification.

12. PURSE AWARDS

A. All purse awards will be paid to the registered entrant.

B. Purse awards will be determined by the amount of points earned by the entrant at each meet, calculated by adding the points earned in race one and the points earned in race two.

C. When ties result, the purse amounts for the position in question and the next position will be totaled and split between the two entrants.

D. Unless otherwise specified, purse awards for each meet scheduled in the 2009 season will be as follows:

First Place = $50,000.00
Second Place through Twentieth Place = $5,000.00 each
Super Pole Winner = $5,000.00

ENDS
"superbike planet"

[nedro]

Originally Posted by jkobflys

ENDS superbike planet

Says it all...

[TKDmasterZ]

So what happens to the 'real' superbikes? So no more liter-bike wars? hmm

[djer73]

you guys should try and watch british superbikes. much better racing.

[TKDmasterZ]

Originally Posted by djer73

you guys should try and watch british superbikes. much better racing.

I would love to! But I'm not sure how to get it here in the US. Even the World SBK races are sometimes delayed a few days.

[bettingpython]

The old 'Win on Sunday sell on Monday' hasn't been as prevalent as it could be, so we want to do a proper introduction of the riders and the teams.

Edmonson in a soup article.

WTF has he not been out to a bike shop does he not know about gixxer kool-aid?

This guy is a mental giant