NEW TYRE RULES IN MOTO G.P.

marius · 09-28-2008, 6:40 PM

Just find out about the new rules coming out for 2009 and that is that they only going to use either bridgestone or michelin for next year

.They going to decide still this week who it is going to be and testing is already starting in about a months time.I still dont know what to think about all of this i feel why force the guys to use something they dont like give them at least the two brands to choose from but then on the other hand will be intresting to see what is going to happen then .Also stories is going around that in 2011 i think there is going to be no longer a 250cc class it is going to be a 600cc class.Which i must be honnest there i give the thumbs up,

cause who of us is still riding 250cc so it will be another event to see forward to on sundays and also to go from 250 to mot gp is a hugh jump for the youngsters but then from 125 to 600 is also going to be a big change.

.OrgOwner · 09-28-2008, 6:57 PM

Hmm, MotoGP is meant to be gloves off the best of the best, if they keep introducing rules to make things "even" it more of less defeats the purpose of the class. I think they need less rules, it's all about finishing the race in the fastest time possible and it should be almost unconditional.

dicknose · 09-28-2008, 11:32 PM

Its never unconditonal.
They have rules over lots of things - engine capacity is probably the most noticable.

Its always been about finishing first under the conditions of the rules!

So its not black and white - the question is then, is a single tyre rule just another rule or a silly rule!

.OrgOwner · 09-28-2008, 11:40 PM

After giving it some thought it's a stupid rule. Whats next? the handicap system to make racing more "even"? Adding weight to fast riders? Lets go back to bare knuckles and see where it takes us. What about the fuel capacity rule that works against guys like Hayden? One rule, capacity. Then go your hardest boys.

NDMBlackBlade · 09-28-2008, 11:50 PM

I think most of the rules are in place for safety and to keep them kinda level in performance!!!
to be the best an 800cc can be, If the engine size or aspiration was a free for all it would just be silly!!!
The class is also development for future road going machines so it makes sense to keep it as close to what will be accepted by insurance company's and government etc...
Next rule I think we will see is a rider and bike weight limit!!
sure an open class would be good but with the technology around these day's unlimited spec is a thing of the past!!
the bikes just got smaller (990 to 800) but still lap times go up!!
so where does it stop being safe.

.OrgOwner · 09-29-2008, 12:01 AM

One tyre means the pressure is off for development of better tyre technology in the motogp class..

NDMBlackBlade · 09-29-2008, 12:18 AM

Eased up a little ye sure but not stopped!! still have AMA WSB etc..
besides all other tyre makers out there might just work harder to pitch for GP next time its up for grabs!!
Michelin just couldn't make a safe tyre to perform at that level!!
anybody remember chunks falling off tyres last year no???
how about tyre warmers going on after the race in park ferme to hide missing rubber and hide the tyre makers shame and anguish!!
Dunlop made an effort but done no better than keeping last and second last place colorful with the yellow bikes!
the main reason given for the rule was safety after all

dicknose · 09-29-2008, 3:01 AM

I dont think its so much about safety - its about trying to remove one variable from the system, which in some ways is not good.
But seeing that its not a variable thats completely free - you cant just choose any tyre at will, the tyre company can (and possibly do) say no to a team.

What difference would there be if the handful of michelin runner changed over to Bridgestone?
They are heading towards a one tyre competition anyway without the rule!

Do they all use the same fuel?
Why not allow different fuels?

lanbrown · 09-29-2008, 3:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDMBlackBlade

I think most of the rules are in place for safety and to keep them kinda level in performance!!!
to be the best an 800cc can be, If the engine size or aspiration was a free for all it would just be silly!!!
The class is also development for future road going machines so it makes sense to keep it as close to what will be accepted by insurance company's and government etc...
Next rule I think we will see is a rider and bike weight limit!!
sure an open class would be good but with the technology around these day's unlimited spec is a thing of the past!!
the bikes just got smaller (990 to 800) but still lap times go up!!
so where does it stop being safe.

That is because the smaller bikes have a higher cornerspeed. The bikes can be narrower and have less weight to them as well. No one is saying no rules, but not impose restrictive rules for some aspects. Tires would be one of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by .OrgOwner

One tyre means the pressure is off for development of better tyre technology in the motogp class..

+1

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDMBlackBlade

Eased up a little ye sure but not stopped!! still have AMA WSB etc..
besides all other tyre makers out there might just work harder to pitch for GP next time its up for grabs!!
Michelin just couldn't make a safe tyre to perform at that level!!
anybody remember chunks falling off tyres last year no???
how about tyre warmers going on after the race in park ferme to hide missing rubber and hide the tyre makers shame and anguish!!
Dunlop made an effort but done no better than keeping last and second last place colorful with the yellow bikes!
the main reason given for the rule was safety after all

And most of them are looking at tire spec rules too. Why compete when you can just pick a series and have it. Look at Goodyear and Nascar. I'm sure one of the other tire manufacturers can produce a better tire. Chances are, some deal was made and Goodyear holds the contract to be the sole supplier for years to come and then easy renewals without competition.

Michelin liked to make tires before the race, but that is against the rules. So it was not a sagety issue but the other manufacturers not being able to perform the same feat. So the rules were made to hurt Michelin and let the others compete. So now Michelin needs to predict what the track is going to be like.

Stick · 09-29-2008, 4:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .OrgOwner

One tyre means the pressure is off for development of better tyre technology in the motogp class..

I don't think either manufacturers have ever expressed anything other than their own development as well. It will take the arguments out about who is on which tire. GP = F1 to the tire guys. HUGE money will always be spent on development. I am sure neither wants to be bad mouthed by the racers.

TKDmasterZ · 09-29-2008, 5:41 AM

This is like a typical argument between a democrat and a republican (here in the US). Do we want rules to even things out for the spectators or do we want freedom for someone to have a huge advantage due to his/her tire brand? Do we not enjoy a closer racing in WSBK without thinking about who's riding what brand tires? I think we'll be fine and the Motocycle tires will evolve just as it did for many decades.

Well, just as the republican administration had to accept a democratic solution to the US economy crisis, we'll just have to accept with MotoGP series having one tire supplier to perhaps stop a cry baby like Pedrosa from creating a scene.

BTW, why does Dunlop domininate in the AMA series and 125, 250 two stroke series without any tire rules? Have Pirelli tires become more advanced than the others since WSBK's single tire rule?

NDMBlackBlade · 09-29-2008, 3:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lanbrown

That is because the smaller bikes have a higher cornerspeed. The bikes can be narrower and have less weight to them as well. No one is saying no rules, but not impose restrictive rules for some aspects. Tires would be one of them.

they still do 200+mph don't they

+1

And most of them are looking at tire spec rules too. Why compete when you can just pick a series and have it. Look at Goodyear and Nascar. I'm sure one of the other tire manufacturers can produce a better tire. Chances are, some deal was made and Goodyear holds the contract to be the sole supplier for years to come and then easy renewals without competition.

Michelin liked to make tires before the race, but that is against the rules. So it was not a sagety issue but the other manufacturers not being able to perform the same feat. So the rules were made to hurt Michelin and let the others compete. So now Michelin needs to predict what the track is going to be like.

I bet you use Michelin's

lanbrown · 09-29-2008, 5:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDMBlackBlade

I bet you use Michelin's

I have Michelin's on two bikes, Bridgestone's on another and Dunlop's on the fourth. So, you just lost your bet.

marius · 09-29-2008, 5:19 PM

I feel let everybody choose there own tyre,even if it is Dunlop tyres doesnt make a bike faster it just give more or less grip.If you take all of our guys here each and everyone has there own choice i personally like Michelin,so even the guys in GP has there own choice and i am sure none of them will use tyres whare hugh of rubber is falling of in a race.Just another thing say for instance Bridgetone do get the contract what is going to happen if in the middel of the season hugh chunks of rubber is falling all over the track. WHAT THEN

NDMBlackBlade · 09-29-2008, 5:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lanbrown

I have Michelin's on two bikes, Bridgestone's on another and Dunlop's on the fourth. So, you just lost your bet.

Clearly favor michelin's!!!! who lost the bet

othere bikes probibly had other makes whet you bought them

lanbrown · 09-29-2008, 6:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDMBlackBlade

Clearly favor michelin's!!!! who lost the bet

othere bikes probibly had other makes whet you bought them

Nope, try again.

We are also talking about Moto GP and not street tires.

Micelin always made (in France) tires right before the race and flew them in. The current rules do not allow this. This is a fact.

NDMBlackBlade · 09-29-2008, 6:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lanbrown

Nope, try again.

We are also talking about Moto GP and not street tires.

Michelin always made (in France) tires right before the race and flew them in. The current rules do not allow this. This is a fact.

Yes I am well aware what the topic is!!
I purely pointed out that you are a Michelin supporter and how obvious it is just reading your post..

in regard making tyres and flying them to a race!!
is that why there tyres fell apart the last year or two!!!
maybe they should let them set first

long before this new rule was talked about riders where refusing to use them

...
maybe they have forced this rule upon themselves!!
This rule seems to work well in WSB and pirelli tyres are being developed better than ever..

lanbrown · 09-29-2008, 7:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NDMBlackBlade

long before this new rule was talked about riders where refusing to use them

Explain this then:
Ducati To Switch To Michelin - Single Tire Proposal To Be Scrapped? | MotoGPMatters.com | Kropotkin Thinks

NDMBlackBlade · 09-29-2008, 7:59 PM

well until moto GP announce what is happening its all just hear say!!!!
its could even be dunlop at this point in time!!!
Ducati may be trying to get ahead with another manufacturer but at the end of the day they must play by the rules!!!
so if moto GP's governing body makes a one tyre rule they have 2 choices
use the allocated tyres or have a 5 bike race!!!
All this talk is probably due to Hayden's add contract anyway!!

so until next week????

lanbrown · 09-29-2008, 8:38 PM

Ducati uses the other brand and everyone wants them and then Ducati goes to where everyone has left.

Take Hayden out of it. I say it is being done because Ducati will get better support; Rossi is now the #1 rider for Bridgestone.

dicknose · 10-01-2008, 4:39 AM

And lets not pretend that a single tyre rule is somehow going to hurt us as everyday riders.
Its not like the tyres they use are being used on the street. These are very specific tyres for race conditions on ultimate race bikes.

chukky · 10-01-2008, 6:02 AM

I think one manufacturer is a good thing,it does level the playing field.Years ago only certain riders were sponcered with brand tyres and they rode the sh++t out of some very talented riders,wich if they had access to the same tyres would have changed a lot of wins written up in history today.The riders can still choose between hard soft medium whatever.I dont want to see someone win cause he's got beter tyres than the next guy,I want to see him win cause he's the best

NDMBlackBlade · 10-26-2008, 1:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lanbrown

Explain this then:
Ducati To Switch To Michelin - Single Tire Proposal To Be Scrapped? | MotoGPMatters.com | Kropotkin Thinks

News | The Official MotoGP Website

explain what now

lanbrown · 10-26-2008, 1:10 PM

And the head of MotoGP has been wanting a single tire rule. The 800cc bikes have been the most boring to watch. The most exciting was the 500cc and the 990cc bikes kept it interesting.

My guess, someone got a little extra cash in his pocket.

FB1000inPA · 11-10-2008, 11:30 AM

Is there somewhere a statistic about what tires have won the most during the last 10 years?

Just wondering because I somehow have the feeling that it wasn't Bridgestone despite their recent success.

chukky · 11-10-2008, 2:08 PM

I agree with you lanbrown,its all about money,not for the series,but for individuals

tammerz · 11-23-2008, 9:52 PM

in regards to the new tyre rule.

the current rule about tyre allocations was put into effect because michelin was sending "overnight specials" to the races for race day using the data gathered from FP's and Qualifying, giving the Michelin riders and unfair advantage.

As far as the tyres levelling the playing field, that can go either way. If the the bike manufacturers cant get their bikes to work on the "Vale" or "Stoner" tyres then they may well be further back than they were before.

The rule will be as follows:
20 tyres per rider per weekend, consisting of 8 fronts and 12 rears
There will be two compounds available split evenly between the 20 tyres
7 compounds in all will be made by Bridgestone, but only two available at any given weekend
Only one carcass construction will be available
There will be a limit on the number of tyres available for testing.

Thats all i know at present. Hope it clears some stuff up

.OrgOwner · 11-23-2008, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tammerz

in regards to the new tyre rule.

the current rule about tyre allocations was put into effect because michelin was sending "overnight specials" to the races for race day using the data gathered from FP's and Qualifying, giving the Michelin riders and unfair advantage.

Your saying the guys on Michelin's had the advantage?

lanbrown · 11-24-2008, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by .OrgOwner

Your saying the guys on Michelin's had the advantage?

They were until FIM made it against the rules to do so. This required Michelin to bring tires to the even and use what theiy brought and not make them in the middle of the night and fly them in for the race.

That rukes was created because the other manufacturers didn't have the capabilities to do that. So Michelin was punished for doing what they could not. So much for competition.

tammerz · 11-24-2008, 8:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lanbrown

They were until FIM made it against the rules to do so. This required Michelin to bring tires to the even and use what theiy brought and not make them in the middle of the night and fly them in for the race.

That rukes was created because the other manufacturers didn't have the capabilities to do that. So Michelin was punished for doing what they could not. So much for competition.

well there is competition then there is competition.
i wouldnt really want a race to come down to a tire manufacturers capabilities.
i would rather see the race won by the riders, like Laguna Seca this year.