Biaggi is not going to like this ..............

ccwilli3 · 01-28-2004, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDA116

Bayliss won 3 more races than Edwards in 2002. Does that make a 'hell of a lot more' race wins? Um, no. Bayliss dominated the first portion of the season, and Edwards the second. The difference was that Edwards was way more consistent.

Yep, way more consistent... Edwards placed first in what, the last 13 races or something like that? Starting at laguna? It was like 20 some straight podiums too... I am sure someone knows the exact # (booth??). Consistency is key, when bayliss tossed it in one of those last races (can't remember which), edwards just had to keep doing what he had done all year long...

nomad · 01-28-2004, 12:30 PM

JungleBoy, thanks. That's what I was trying to say...

However you have to consider two things; 1) Bayliss and Colin are close in skill - I said that above - so any argument that one is extremely better than the other is going to fail. 2) The supporters of Colin are also Patriotic US citizens - again, any argument that Bayliss is a better rider will fail.

BTW, I still don't consider "consistent" to mean conservative. I consider that he consistently places in the top spots - consistent results, look at any points sheet. I think he rides with a consistent style. I'd love to have the data to look at his laptimes compared per track over a number of years...

On another note, nobody claimed that Xaus didn't ride like a maniac. I love his drive and fearlessness... getting wild makes this sport fun.

I say we let the races start and finish this discussion when Bayliss clinches fifth place over Colin's 6th... or 7th.... or...

ccwilli3 · 01-28-2004, 12:37 PM

I'll say this about bayliss and edwards. I do consider them "about" equal...

Having said that, if edwards hadn't had the 3 or so engine failures that were DNFs in 2001, he'd be 3 time champ, not 2 time WSBK champ...

nomad · 01-28-2004, 12:43 PM

And if "Ifs" and "Buts" were candies and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas.

We can play the ifs and buts game but when it comes down to it, Bayliss and Colin were pretty even in WSBK - depending on equipment to make the difference and in MotoGP... well... you'll argue with me that Colin was on inferior equipment Soooo.... this year should prove a point, no? I would think the Honda machine is a step up from the Duc, albeit, I can't say that with confidence (I'd like to believe it's true)... that means that if Bayliss DOES beat Colin, we can assuredly say Bayliss is the better rider? My math logic tells me that's accurate...

Now the real question is, what will the excuse be if Colin fails to beat him this year?

ccwilli3 · 01-28-2004, 12:57 PM

he's "powered by honda"... Bayliss is already scared.

nomad · 01-28-2004, 1:18 PM

heh... yup. He has every right to be scared. That's some seriously scary competition.

tigerblade · 01-28-2004, 2:16 PM

I think Edwards got new parts at Laguna too.

ccwilli3 · 01-28-2004, 2:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerblade

I think Edwards got new parts at Laguna too.

I believe he got them after laguna... At least the good stuff, as after laguna was the summer break, right? I remember him riding like hell to get second in race one, then in race two he actually said he was going to "win it or bin it"!

deez · 01-28-2004, 2:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccwilli3

I believe he got them after laguna... At least the good stuff, as after laguna was the summer break, right? I remember him riding like hell to get second in race one, then in race two he actually said he was going to "win it or bin it"!

The bike he won with at Laguna had the same bits that he had been using all year. He got new bits After Laguna Seca.

asiliat · 01-28-2004, 3:23 PM

Is it even possible that Rossi had a test ride before signing w/ Yamaha to see his chances of success? I mean, I know it's so prelim in the racing season that it virtually won't mean squat looking at lap times, but the fact he was up to speed on a brand new bike in such a short while is just totally nuts (unless somehow Yamaha could simulate the feel and handling of the Honda).

In my mind, the Yam crew spared no expense and created a bike simulator, and Rossi was "practicing" in some factory somewhere, in front of a 50 inch TV, on a bike with hydraulics....

....I'm dreaming of course. But one can, can't one?

Pete · 01-28-2004, 3:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asiliat

Is it even possible that Rossi had a test ride before signing w/ Yamaha to see his chances of success? I mean, I know it's so prelim in the racing season that it virtually won't mean squat looking at lap times, but the fact he was up to speed on a brand new bike in such a short while is just totally nuts (unless somehow Yamaha could simulate the feel and handling of the Honda).

In my mind, the Yam crew spared no expense and created a bike simulator, and Rossi was "practicing" in some factory somewhere, in front of a 50 inch TV, on a bike with hydraulics....

....I'm dreaming of course. But one can, can't one?

Sure does seem like it, don't it?

Pete · 01-28-2004, 3:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccwilli3

I believe he got them after laguna... At least the good stuff, as after laguna was the summer break, right? I remember him riding like hell to get second in race one, then in race two he actually said he was going to "win it or bin it"!

What he got AT Laguna was one less engine bolt, to soften the chassis flex, a last minute "design change" by just simply removing a bolt.

I remember Kevin Cameron writing about it.

deez · 01-28-2004, 4:19 PM

No engine mods though. Colin said '****' it at that race, he was going to win or crash

ccwilli3 · 01-28-2004, 4:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by booth23

No engine mods though. Colin said '****' it at that race, he was going to win or crash

And thats why he is THE MAN...

I remember watching superpole and thinking this guy is all heart! And that RC was beautiful!

tigerblade · 01-28-2004, 4:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete

What he got AT Laguna was one less engine bolt, to soften the chassis flex, a last minute "design change" by just simply removing a bolt.

I remember Kevin Cameron writing about it.

I should have taken bolts off my bike last year...

nomad · 01-28-2004, 5:02 PM

heh... I'm sure there are a few guys here with missing bolts.

oldgoat · 01-28-2004, 6:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firebladetoronto

I disagree, I think he will be in the fight, but Max is the more likely alternative. Sete was hot last year due to Kato's passing, it gave him that edge, but I think this year, it will be a different story. It will be either VR or Max.

max can't take the pressure!

Jungleboy · 01-29-2004, 4:08 AM

Sorry if it came across like I was bagging Edwards before, that wasnt my intention (I think hes a great rider, after all he is half Aussie

) Just suprised that not many people were giving Bayliss a chance in the top five! And thought Id go in to bat for him!

abtech · 01-29-2004, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asiliat

Is it even possible that Rossi had a test ride before signing w/ Yamaha to see his chances of success? I mean, I know it's so prelim in the racing season that it virtually won't mean squat looking at lap times, but the fact he was up to speed on a brand new bike in such a short while is just totally nuts (unless somehow Yamaha could simulate the feel and handling of the Honda).

In my mind, the Yam crew spared no expense and created a bike simulator, and Rossi was "practicing" in some factory somewhere, in front of a 50 inch TV, on a bike with hydraulics....

....I'm dreaming of course. But one can, can't one?

You may want to look at the video thread for some info on this subject . . .

ND4SPD · 01-29-2004, 10:18 AM

Don't forget that Val has his crew chief with him too, that makes a HUGE difference

luvtolean · 01-29-2004, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick the Quick

Dude bayliss took to it better because he was on a much better bike. When you take alot a risks I dont think your consistent. Risks are taken for rewards, things go up and down when you take risks, for the most part. Colin is back on his Honda, Colin knows Honda very well. Not saying Troy is not a great racer, but Im pretty sure 4 out of 5 people will agree that Colin Edwards is a better rider.

Colin's new "Honda" has about as much in common with his antiquated, discontinued, old one (

)as a NASCAR does with an F1 car.

Nick the Quick · 01-29-2004, 9:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Colin's new "Honda" has about as much in common with his antiquated, discontinued, old one (

)as a NASCAR does with an F1 car.

True, but Hondas still have a common feel. The Aprilia is nothing like any Honda. Plus Colin had seat time on the first year 211V5, and Colin said he would only need 5 or 6 hours on the Honda to get the feel back.