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post #16 of 125 Old 06-19-2011, 9:14 PM
 
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Re: 98 CBR900RR

Things broke on the Jetta.. so we upgraded


He used to race motorcycles haha.. He cant control his urges on the street.


Well let us know how it goes tomorrow!

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post #17 of 125 Old 06-22-2011, 9:48 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 98 CBR900RR

Well, I filed suit against the guy yesterday! I called him and let him know that he had two options - give me my money back or go to court. He didn't react angrily, he just kept trying to tell me that he talked to an attorney that said he wasn't responsible because he didn't know the bike was stolen. Regardless of whether he knew it or not, he still sold me a motorcycle that he did not have the LEGAL right to sell. He was not able to pass legal ownership and guarantee the transfer of title. We are going to small claims court (no attorneys allowed) so I doubt he'll be able to argue his way out of it in front of a judge. Stuff like "I talked to an attorney and he said I wasn't responsible" makes a nice excuse on the phone with me, but it won't cut the mustard in front of a judge! I mailed him the summons, so he'll have it in the next couple days. We'll see if his tune changes once he sees the summons and realizes that I'm competent enough to get through the filing procedure and serious enough to go through with actually taking him to court.

Getting between me and my Fireblade is almost as bad as hitting on my wife! She's way too pretty for me

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post #18 of 125 Old 06-22-2011, 10:03 AM
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Re: 98 CBR900RR

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Originally Posted by uhhmoney View Post
Well, I filed suit against the guy yesterday! I called him and let him know that he had two options - give me my money back or go to court. He didn't react angrily, he just kept trying to tell me that he talked to an attorney that said he wasn't responsible because he didn't know the bike was stolen. Regardless of whether he knew it or not, he still sold me a motorcycle that he did not have the LEGAL right to sell. He was not able to pass legal ownership and guarantee the transfer of title. We are going to small claims court (no attorneys allowed) so I doubt he'll be able to argue his way out of it in front of a judge. Stuff like "I talked to an attorney and he said I wasn't responsible" makes a nice excuse on the phone with me, but it won't cut the mustard in front of a judge! I mailed him the summons, so he'll have it in the next couple days. We'll see if his tune changes once he sees the summons and realizes that I'm competent enough to get through the filing procedure and serious enough to go through with actually taking him to court.

Getting between me and my Fireblade is almost as bad as hitting on my wife! She's way too pretty for me


Sounds like a moron.
Clearly he has not talked to an attorney, even the dumbest legal mind would tell him he's responsible for selling a vehicle he had no legal entitlement to own.
If he does actually try to defend himself in a court is there any chance of posting the transcript :-)

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post #19 of 125 Old 06-22-2011, 10:22 AM
 
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Re: 98 CBR900RR

uhhmoney that is an illegal picture

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post #20 of 125 Old 06-22-2011, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 98 CBR900RR

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uhhmoney that is an illegal picture
wait what? is it really or are you just making a cp joke?
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post #21 of 125 Old 06-22-2011, 10:32 AM
 
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Re: 98 CBR900RR

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wait what? is it really or are you just making a cp joke?
Of course Im joking, your just making the rest of jealous

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post #22 of 125 Old 06-22-2011, 10:44 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 98 CBR900RR

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Of course Im joking, your just making the rest of jealous
oohhh haha you had me searching through all the rules looking for which one I violated!!!
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post #23 of 125 Old 06-22-2011, 2:17 PM
 
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Re: 98 CBR900RR

I had to give you rep points for that picture.
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post #24 of 125 Old 06-22-2011, 9:50 PM
 
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Re: 98 CBR900RR

I've actually sued a guy in GA for selling me a stolen bike via eBay. Like your situation, the bike was assembled from two stolen motorcycles: a engine from one bike, the frame another.

Although I sued in small claims court, once in court the judge told me I had to act as an attorney does in formally presenting evidence and calling witnesses. I couldn't just tell my side of the story because I can't act as my own witness. I'm not a lawyer and had no idea how to proceed properly. I did my best assuming that since the bike was stolen and I was deceived, he did not have the "right" to take my money, thus I should be compensated.

Long story short, the guy simply said he was not aware it was stolen and I was awarded nothing--stolen engine, stolen frame, he put it together and somehow had no idea. So much for justice.

So... don't assume your case is a slam dunk unless you can cite the law in your jurisdiction that states that an unknowing buyer of stolen property has a legal right to recovery his money.
It seems like that should obviously be supported by some law, but unfortunately no. I've seen people refer to a stolen motorcycle as a hot potato... the person caught holding it will be the loser.
It might be worth it to consult an attorney. In hindsight I think I should have presented the angle that I was deceived because I thought I was buying a used bike, not a pieced together salvage bike. I'm still not sure what I could have done differently.

Anyways, thanks for enduring my advice/rant. Good luck! Keep us updated.
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post #25 of 125 Old 06-22-2011, 10:03 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 98 CBR900RR

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Originally Posted by Rendell View Post
I had to give you rep points for that picture.
thanks she's a pretty woman for sure and just so ya'll know I'm REALLY married to her... here's one of our wedding photos!!!



OT: ugh... my court date feels so far away. July 18 cannot come soon enough!!!
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post #26 of 125 Old 06-22-2011, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 98 CBR900RR

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Originally Posted by TommyCoffeeCake View Post
I've actually sued a guy in GA for selling me a stolen bike via eBay. Like your situation, the bike was assembled from two stolen motorcycles: a engine from one bike, the frame another.

Although I sued in small claims court, once in court the judge told me I had to act as an attorney does in formally presenting evidence and calling witnesses. I couldn't just tell my side of the story because I can't act as my own witness. I'm not a lawyer and had no idea how to proceed properly. I did my best assuming that since the bike was stolen and I was deceived, he did not have the "right" to take my money, thus I should be compensated.

Long story short, the guy simply said he was not aware it was stolen and I was awarded nothing--stolen engine, stolen frame, he put it together and somehow had no idea. So much for justice.

So... don't assume your case is a slam dunk unless you can cite the law in your jurisdiction that states that an unknowing buyer of stolen property has a legal right to recovery his money.
It seems like that should obviously be supported by some law, but unfortunately no. I've seen people refer to a stolen motorcycle as a hot potato... the person caught holding it will be the loser.
It might be worth it to consult an attorney. In hindsight I think I should have presented the angle that I was deceived because I thought I was buying a used bike, not a pieced together salvage bike. I'm still not sure what I could have done differently.

Anyways, thanks for enduring my advice/rant. Good luck! Keep us updated.
What you should have done is sue for breach of contract - specifically, breach of warranty of title. Warranty of title is a warranty that exists when an individual is selling a vehicle. The only time it does not apply is when a specific disclaimer is agreed upon at the time of the sale, and there was no disclaimer stated or in writing. Warranty of title means that the seller is the legal owner of the item being sold and has the right to pass title and legal ownership of the item to the buyer. I have already consulted an attorney (a very big famous name in my area, who I am already a client of due to another situation). Because the police had a stolen report filed before the transaction took place, the seller did NOT have legal ownership of the vehicle and thus did not have the legal right to sell the vehicle, though he, by the act of selling the vehicle and signing the bill of sale as the seller, asserted that he did have legal ownership of the vehicle.

The short story is - I am not going to just go to court and say "he sold me a stolen motorcycle and I want my money back." I have a civil suit against him in small claims court because he violated a contract/warranty that existed between him and I concerning the legal ownership of property sold. I can clearly demonstrate that he did not have legal ownership of the vehicle, and I can clearly demonstrate that he did not pass legal ownership of the vehicle to me. Even by signing the title as the seller he asserted to both me and the state that he was the legal title holder and that he had the legal right to assign the title to me. I have notarized, signed statements from witnesses present for every contact with him before the sale and during the sale. I have the report from the original officer who put out the stolen hit. The preponderance of the evidence shows clearly, without a doubt, he was not the legal owner of the vehicle, nor did he have the right to sell, trade, assign title to, or even possess the vehicle that he sold to me - which is the textbook definition of "breach of warranty of title." His failure to disclose the details concerning his acquisition of the motorcycle when asked also demonstrate a lack of scruples and consideration for the protection of the buyer.

According to the code of Virginia, 8.2-312,

(1) Subject to subsection (2) there is in a contract for sale a warranty by the seller that

(a) the title conveyed shall be good, and its transfer rightful; and

(b) the goods shall be delivered free from any security interest or other lien or encumbrance of which the buyer at the time of contracting has no knowledge.

(2) A warranty under subsection (1) will be excluded or modified only by specific language or by circumstances which give the buyer reason to know that the person selling does not claim title in himself or that he is purporting to sell only such right or title as he or a third person may have.

What the above means is that unless by SPECIFIC LANGUAGE (there was none) the seller disclaims that the item sold is in good title and with a rightful transfer, or if I had reason to know that the person selling was not the title holder or that he is selling for someone else (also not the case here because he was in possession of and signing as the seller of the title IN HIS NAME)... THE MOTORCYCLE MUST BE DELIVERED WITH A GOOD TITLE, RIGHTFULLY TRANSFERRED, WITHOUT ANY ENCUMBRANCE OF WHICH THE BUYER HAS NO KNOWLEDGE. Did I have knowledge that the bike was stolen? Nope. Is that an encumbrance? Yep. Was the vehicle delivered with good title, rightfully transferred? Nope. If the judge wants specifically worded law, there it is.
I don't want to come across as cocky, but I'm confident that this won't be a difficult case to win.

Can anybody play devil's advocate and try to argue the opposite point? I'd love to see some opposing views and defenses so I can have answers for them if it comes to that in court!

Last edited by uhhmoney; 06-23-2011 at 12:10 AM.
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post #27 of 125 Old 06-23-2011, 12:27 AM
 
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Re: 98 CBR900RR

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Originally Posted by uhhmoney View Post
thanks she's a pretty woman for sure and just so ya'll know I'm REALLY married to her... here's one of our wedding photos!!!



OT: ugh... my court date feels so far away. July 18 cannot come soon enough!!!

Bro, you are a lucky man and you are welcome. I didn't doubt you for a minute.
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post #28 of 125 Old 06-23-2011, 12:36 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 98 CBR900RR

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Bro, you are a lucky man and you are welcome. I didn't doubt you for a minute.
I must have used all my luck on snagging her, because it seems my luck with vehicles is not too great!
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post #29 of 125 Old 06-23-2011, 12:40 AM
 
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Re: 98 CBR900RR

Nice. It looks like you have a solid, well organized argument.

In court I was trying to make the same basic argument, however I was much less eloquent. I was also thrown off by court procedure. I attempted to present three police reports to the court as "evidence" and the judge stopped me saying I had to have a witness to verify the documents to enter them evidence... or something like that. I went in thinking small claims court was designed for non-lawyers with guidance by the judge, but it didn't seem so.

Regardless of my experience, it looks like you have things in order. Kick that guy's legal ass.
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post #30 of 125 Old 06-23-2011, 12:46 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 98 CBR900RR

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Originally Posted by TommyCoffeeCake View Post
Nice. It looks like you have a solid, well organized argument.

In court I was trying to make the same basic argument, however I was much less eloquent. I was also thrown off by court procedure. I attempted to present three police reports to the court as "evidence" and the judge stopped me saying I had to have a witness to verify the documents to enter them evidence... or something like that. I went in thinking small claims court was designed for non-lawyers with guidance by the judge, but it didn't seem so.

Regardless of my experience, it looks like you have things in order. Kick that guy's legal ass.
That reminds me that I need to get the police report signed by the officer and notarized so it is admissible. Thanks for that, because I didn't even think about needing to have the police report notarized. Can you think of anything else from your case that I'm not doing right or missing? If my case is a success for me, maybe I should write a "what to do if you're sold a stolen motorcycle" guide to help others avoid being run over by the court system.

What state do you live in? How long ago was your case? I wonder if there is a statute of limitations to how long you have to sue in your state, because in mine unless the parties SPECIFICALLY agree to a shorter term, you have up to 4 years to take action for any breach unless you have already taken an action for the breach you are taking action for, then the limit is up to 6 months after the first action unless your action was voluntarily discontinued or dismissed for failure or neglect to prosecute. So from what it sounds like, if the result of your court case was "judgment for the defendant" then you have 6 months from the DOJ (date of judgment) to act.

Last edited by uhhmoney; 06-23-2011 at 1:19 AM. Reason: added info
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