Grease, anti-seize, and Loc-tite. Discuss.

Duster929 · 08-29-2005, 1:56 PM

I am a very confused beginner in the world of moto maintenance.

How do you know when to use grease, anti-seize, or loc-tite? Although manuals give torque settings, they often don't say anything about how to treat threads before fastening.

Can someone give me some guidelines?

Typically, I would use grease or anti-seize on any fasteners that are a different metal from what they are going into (i.e. stainless bolts into aluminum). However, I would want to use Loc-tite thread sealant (of a low/medium formulation) to secure certain critical threads that I don't intend to unfasten and re-fasten regularly.

But here's the question: If I'm replacing the engine mounting bolts (to put on frame sliders), what would I use? The bolts are steel, and are going into the aluminum engine. My gut tells me that grease or (even better) copper-based anti-seize is essential. However, I don't intend to un-fasten these bolts any time soon (with luck), so I think I should use a couple drops of loc-tite as well. So should I use both? Just loctite? Just antiseize?

Can someone educate me in the magical mysteries of thread-treatment?

Thanks all.

--- D

ND4SPD · 08-29-2005, 2:05 PM

I've used lock-tite on engine mounts on both occasions that I've had to remove them(different bikes). I don't see a need to grease it if you're not going to remove it

dbgoff · 08-29-2005, 2:05 PM

when steel bolts are introduced to an aluminun piece, it is best to keep a barrier of grease between them for, as I am told, this helps keep down rust that is prone when these two metals contact each other.

Duster929 · 08-29-2005, 2:07 PM

And so my confusion grows.

--- D

dbgoff · 08-29-2005, 2:12 PM

Quote:

when steel bolts are introduced to an aluminun piece, it is best to keep a barrier of grease between them for, as I am told, this helps keep down rust that is prone when these two metals contact each other.

I was told this when my mechanic saw my GPR damper on my bike. He told me to keep the steel pin greased that mounts to the pivoting portion of the damper avaoid any rusting. I asumed this applied to and steel/aluminum combination.

asiliat · 08-29-2005, 4:13 PM

anti sieze in the spark plugs. Don't overdo it - a very light coat on all the threads is enough, but make sure you get the threads coated, all the way around.

Lock-tite on fairing bolts are not a good idea. They need some flex or it'll crack your fairings. (learned the hard way).

Lock-tite on your damper is a good idea though. Don't use the strongest strength lockt-tite. The low strength is good enough.

Grease the chain, use PJ Lube or the like.

That's all the advice I've got so far, I'm a newbie bike maintenance guy too.

Duster929 · 08-29-2005, 4:40 PM

What about engine mounting bolts? It's a high-torque connection, so I'm not going to use Loc-tite, as it's going to be cranked down pretty hard in any case. But given the steel-to-aluminum mating, a little coate of anti-seize is going to make me feel better. Does that sound about right? If not, let me know.

--- D

oldgoat · 08-29-2005, 6:22 PM

Read the service manual carefully and you'll see its says ALL torque reading are for CLEAN and DRY fittings, unless other wise stated.

If you use Anti-seize or grease on the threads because you think you need it cut the torque reading by 50%.

Yes i learned this the hard way

SpikedLemon · 08-29-2005, 10:38 PM

Almost all my bolts have a coating of anti-seize. It prevents the galvanitic corrosion between the aluminium engine components and the stainless steel hardware that I'm using to hold it all together.
The only ones that get loctite are the ones I don't want moving at all, like: brake calipers and steering damper.

I check the engine bolts every so often to make sure they're not loosening off but I haven't had a problem yet. I did, however, have the bolts in the steering damper come flying out when I forgot to loctite them on a bumpy road.Oops.

sheepofblue · 08-29-2005, 10:46 PM

I don't use grease instead get 6 point sockets of good quality. As far as loctite anything you don't want coming off for safety or vibration is a candidate for me. For instance rotors calipers etc I loctite. Exhaust I would also as it tends to vibrate

On a two stroke buy loctite by the gallon

Whippet Goode · 09-14-2005, 2:41 AM

I use Loc-tite on my rearsets, as I've had peddles, bolts, nuts, levers etc vibrate loose.

Cheers

seamus · 09-14-2005, 8:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whippet Goode

I use Loc-tite on my rearsets, as I've had peddles, bolts, nuts, levers etc vibrate loose.

Cheers

+1. My gear shifter vibrated loose on the autobahn last year. Although not completely dangerous, it psychologically shook me a bit.

I took a page out of the AH64 crew chiefs' "manual of good ideas" after that incident. Use anti-seize on whatever you want. Use torque stripes to make sure it's staying where you left it. This way you can get a quick visual each time you step up to the bike that nothing is loosening up on you.

Scout · 09-14-2005, 10:37 AM

Used medium Loc-Tite on my replacement engine bolts which came with my LP CF Frame Sliders, will always use after loosening or replacing engine bolts.

Wish I had used Loc-Tite on my rearset left heel-gaurd, as that is on the L.A. Freeway system somewhere...

ndj · 09-15-2005, 7:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldgoat

Read the service manual carefully and you'll see its says ALL torque reading are for CLEAN and DRY fittings, unless other wise stated.

If you use Anti-seize or grease on the threads because you think you need it cut the torque reading by 50%.

Yes i learned this the hard way

I hope you're right. I just fitted a GPR damper and when I tightened the steering stem nut (which I put medium strength loctite on) it was supposed to be about 76lbft but I only got it to 50lbft and was too scared to tighten further lest it break. By feel I'd say it is as tight as it was when I removed it. Nonetheless I am a bit worried that I didn't tighten it to the specified value.

In fact I am reluctant to ever use my torque wrench as once I sheared off a crankcase bolt trying to tighten it to the specified torque (against my better judgement) with a torque wrench.

Duster929 · 09-15-2005, 9:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ndj

I hope you're right. I just fitted a GPR damper and when I tightened the steering stem nut (which I put medium strength loctite on) it was supposed to be about 76lbft but I only got it to 50lbft and was too scared to tighten further lest it break. By feel I'd say it is as tight as it was when I removed it. Nonetheless I am a bit worried that I didn't tighten it to the specified value.

In fact I am reluctant to ever use my torque wrench as once I sheared off a crankcase bolt trying to tighten it to the specified torque (against my better judgement) with a torque wrench.

That being said, I've heard from others that they just keep the same torque recommendation regardless of whether they've treated the threads or not. Sounds like a bit of a risk to me. I don't know how torque ratings are set... are they a "maximum" torque for that fastener/connection? Or are they a "recommendation", with some margin for error on either side? I would think that if you're going to use loctite and keep a close eye on vibrating/loosening parts, for many connections there's no harm in being conservative with torque. When it comes to connections that involve fluid retention/leaking, I think torque becomes much more important as the sealing property of the connection has to be preserved.

--- D

Baketech · 09-15-2005, 9:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duster929

I would think that if you're going to use loctite and keep a close eye on vibrating/loosening parts, for many connections there's no harm in being conservative with torque. When it comes to connections that involve fluid retention/leaking, I think torque becomes much more important as the sealing property of the connection has to be preserved.

--- D

PMFJI...but you need to be careful when applying that idea...

The fastener size, and resultant torque spec for a bolted joint is generally calculated to provide the proper joint preload so that the fastener does not "see" a cyclic load condition that can lead to fatigue failure.

Just understand that under0-torquing of a stressed connection can be just as risky as over-torquing....

Duster929 · 09-15-2005, 9:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

PMFJI...but you need to be careful when applying that idea...

The fastener size, and resultant torque spec for a bolted joint is generally calculated to provide the proper joint preload so that the fastener does not "see" a cyclic load condition that can lead to fatigue failure.

Just understand that under0-torquing of a stressed connection can be just as risky as over-torquing....

It's all so confusing, this black magic of moto maintenance. As in most other things I've learned to do, it all becomes clear with time, practice, and patience.

What does PMFJI mean?

--- D

Baketech · 09-15-2005, 9:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duster929

It's all so confusing, this black magic of moto maintenance. As in most other things I've learned to do, it all becomes clear with time, practice, and patience.

What does PMFJI mean? (Pardon Me For Jumpin In)

--- D

True that... keep chuggin...

CBR929RE · 09-15-2005, 3:17 PM

I think a basic rule can be if you see it there when you took the bolt out then put it on when put the bolt back in. I know pegs, shifter linkage, sets and stuff like that all had loctite on them when I took them off so I put it back on when I put the bolts back in. Remember with the torque values if the books says a value and also says to use one of those compounds then they probably came to that value with the compound in mind.

CBR Riding Fool · 10-09-2005, 2:09 PM

Don't forget the three levels of loc tite. purple is low, Blue is medium, Red is **** the next guy.

SomeStrangeGuy · 10-10-2005, 1:35 AM

I sold a dirtbike a few years ago that I tore down/rebuilt most of the rear end on over the winter. Blue loctite froze in the shed,damn..but red still flowed, and in late evening error I thought "can it really be THAT much stronger?".

Wasn't really aware I would be selling it when I did the work though. Regardless the first time I needed to readjust the shock and the subframe bolts spun the heads clean off I realized it was definetely time for sale

(though I actually did attempt to remove an abundancy of the stuff before I sold it out of guilt, but funny I did that AFTER i had the replacement bike on deck, heh)

G-Force Junkie · 10-10-2005, 1:54 AM

A little heat and red locktite turns to jelly. I routinley install and remove 10-32 screws with tiny 5/32 allen heads with red locktite at work. Just hit them for 7-10 seconds with a propane torch first.

SomeStrangeGuy · 10-10-2005, 2:03 AM

I imagine that must generate alot of friction, but if you use the flame to heat them I bet it works even better