[mr_rua]

Does anybody know/have an opinion of whether either one is better? It would seem TeamProMotion (TPM) is $10 cheaper to the equivalent NESBA charges (in terms of membership and track days).

I'm thinking about riding with TPM instead of NESBA due to the savings that TPM provides. Yeah, I know, I'm probably one of the biggest cheappies you've ever seen. However, I would pass up the $10 savings if there are too many negatives about TPM.

TIA!

[ccwilli3]

do they both frequent the tracks you want to ride?

I personally don't get along too well with the nesba "way"... If you wanna ride VIR a lot, hit up cornerspeed. No membership fee needed. Otherwise I'd hit up TPM if you never have... I'm sure you could ride once and just pay the "non-member" fee and give it a go... I say that because you'll get +/- on each from different people...

[mr_rua]

Originally Posted by ccwilli3

do they both frequent the tracks you want to ride?

I personally don't get along too well with the nesba "way"... If you wanna ride VIR a lot, hit up cornerspeed. No membership fee needed. Otherwise I'd hit up TPM if you never have... I'm sure you could ride once and just pay the "non-member" fee and give it a go... I say that because you'll get +/- on each from different people...

Yes, they do frequent tracks I want to ride. My main objective is that I pick an organization that has a lot of track days at Summit Point (WV), since it's about one hour from my house. Both of these organizations have plenty of track days at Summit Point. I only plan on doing 1 day down at VIR since it is roughly about a 5 hour drive for me. So basically it's a wash between the 2 except for the issue of the marginal money savings. That's why I'm trying to find out more about TPM.

Why doesn't the NESBA "way" suit you?

[CBRBob]

nesba runs a 'control rider' track. No passing until the control rider lets you by. You could have an awesome lap and then NOT because you had to get their attention to pass. They do offer sandwiches for free at lunch though.......

TPM is a more family/friends oriented. If you are riding well, we leave you alone. If we see you need something to correct what you are doing, we offer it. If you ask for help, we help every time. Riding above your groups level, we move you up. When I was a member, I gladly paid $10 more(yes TPM used to cost more than nesba) to ride with them.

If nesba was the only game in town and TPM was at tracks 8 hours away, I guess I would ride with nesba though. You have to weight all aspects.

[HondaGalToo]

I was gonna say Reduc! But, then I noticed you're in W. VA, so that won't help. I have friends who ride/have ridden with all three of these clubs, so although I have no personal experience with TPM or NESBA, from what I've heard, if I was making the choice, it'd be TPM.

[evl_twn]

Originally Posted by CBRBob

nesba runs a 'control rider' track. No passing until the control rider lets you by. You could have an awesome lap and then NOT because you had to get their attention to pass. They do offer sandwiches for free at lunch though.......

Nesba does have control riders, but I've never been to a NESBA event where you had to wait to pass other riders (except the first session of the morning, first couple laps). They do have rules on passing for the different groups though. Beginner group is pretty restricted, they usually only allow passing in one or two areas of the track (unless you're following a control rider), and they don't want you passing the control riders until they wave you by. The intermediate group allows passing anywhere on the track, except in corners. Their rule book says the same thing about passing control riders in the I group, but if you're one of the faster riders in the "I" group you'll probably be out there with a control rider anyway. Most of the sessions I've been out in with I group have been pretty wide open as far as passing. A lot of times out, I'd not see much of control riders (sometimes they were right behind me though) for whole session, just passing/getting passed by other riders. The advanced group is pretty much run like an open race practice, passing is allowed anywhere as long as it's safe.

I've not seen the free lunches at NESBA, I thought it was STT who did that?

The NESBA manual is available here:

http://www.nesba.com/Info/downloads/manual.pdf

Pages 7 and 8 have class structure and passing rules.

[evl_twn]

One other quick note. I don't want it sounding like I'm all pro-NESBA and ruling everyone else out. Truth is, there's not much else in the midwest except STT, and I'm probably going to try them out this year. Are there any other trackday orgs that have events in IL, IN, MI, WI, IA areas?

[abtech]

Trackoholics (and Fireblades.org Days) provide a variety of lunches (not just something from down the street). They also provide Coffee, Tea, donuts, banannas and apples (and if CBRVFR is there, Bagels too!) in the morning.

[bubba]

I have got a 25 dollar off couplon for nesba membership. email me if you want me to scan it in and send it to you

[ccwilli3]

another nesba irritation of mine is how many bikes they put out on a grid. Wow, 40-50 some per group on VIR-South... Thats just too many in my opinion... I spend more time worrying about passing slower riders than I do actually working on MY riding...

[abtech]

Originally Posted by ccwilli3

another nesba irritation of mine is how many bikes they put out on a grid. Wow, 40-50 some per group on VIR-South... Thats just too many in my opinion... I spend more time worrying about passing slower riders than I do actually working on MY riding...

hmmmm, where have I heard this before . . .

With some events, you spend more time avoiding debris and floppers than actually working on your riding . . . .

[HondaGalToo]

Originally Posted by abtech

hmmmm, where have I heard this before . . .

With some events, you spend more time avoiding debris and floppers than actually working on your riding . . . .

That's gotten to be most organizations, as trackdays keep getting more and more popular and the owners want to make money.

[mr_rua]

Originally Posted by ccwilli3

another nesba irritation of mine is how many bikes they put out on a grid. Wow, 40-50 some per group on VIR-South... Thats just too many in my opinion... I spend more time worrying about passing slower riders than I do actually working on MY riding...

I did notice that there are quite a few riders on the track, especially in the "B" group. I find myself trying to pass people half of the time for each session. However I view this as a posititve thing. It just makes me practice my passing, which will benefit me if I ever get good enough to go racing.

[Zippy]

BTW, what is a flopper?

I ride a lot of Midwest NESBA events, and haven't had the privilege opportunity to ride with TeamProMotion. I do like NESBA. I have ridden with other organizations where anyone can put themselves in any group they choose. In NESBA, you actually have to 'earn' your spot in the higher groups. They have good quality control riders who observe, teach, and determine which group a rider belongs in. These guys have a real focus on safety, and are well qualified to do their jobs. They aren't just racers or fast guys, they actually have communication skills and teaching skills. Some other orgs aren't as picky with who they allow to control ride.

Sometimes riders will complain of not being able to get around traffic, yet say they should be running in a higher faster group. Part of being able to ride safely is to pass safely and think on your feet. When I first started riding track, I did get frustrated by my inability to get past folks. As my skills increased, the traffic kind of melted away. NESBA forces you to learn to set people up and pass in the safer spots, rather than just scrape by whereever you can.

With NESBA, one of the things you have to prove before you can move up, is that you are effective at executing safe, well timed passes. I like it that I know the riders around me are qualified and have to meet tough standards to be in the same group I'm in. Not just by their own ego, but by objective review by qualified control riders.

[02FBlade]

I did the first 2 Nesba days at barber...3 seasons ago I guess. ...and they sucked ass! Seemed to care more about their track time than anything else...no tire changers for a 2 day weekend...no PA. Not impressed. Damn yankees! Cost too much for membership.

I've done one TPM day at CMP. I thought it was fine. No complaints.

I feel STT runs really good events. I'll be at barber with them in march.

[ccwilli3]

Originally Posted by Zippy

BTW, what is a flopper?

I ride a lot of Midwest NESBA events, and haven't had the privilege opportunity to ride with TeamProMotion. I do like NESBA. I have ridden with other organizations where anyone can put themselves in any group they choose. In NESBA, you actually have to 'earn' your spot in the higher groups. They have good quality control riders who observe, teach, and determine which group a rider belongs in. These guys have a real focus on safety, and are well qualified to do their jobs. They aren't just racers or fast guys, they actually have communication skills and teaching skills. Some other orgs aren't as picky with who they allow to control ride.

Sometimes riders will complain of not being able to get around traffic, yet say they should be running in a higher faster group. Part of being able to ride safely is to pass safely and think on your feet. When I first started riding track, I did get frustrated by my inability to get past folks. As my skills increased, the traffic kind of melted away. NESBA forces you to learn to set people up and pass in the safer spots, rather than just scrape by whereever you can.

With NESBA, one of the things you have to prove before you can move up, is that you are effective at executing safe, well timed passes. I like it that I know the riders around me are qualified and have to meet tough standards to be in the same group I'm in. Not just by their own ego, but by objective review by qualified control riders.

Okay, suppose you are in a group that only allows passing on straights. Not on the brakes, not in a corner, etc... And the slow, no-riding, "I-like-to-park-it-in-each-corner" dude in front of you is on a liter bike and you are on a SV 650. He blasts down the straights only to park it in turn 1. yet, I can't pass him under power on the straights and the "rules" will not allow me to motor around the outside of turn 1.

See the frustration? If you aren't a "regular" with them, they assume you can't ride and don't know dick about riding. This, I have a problem with.

I live very close to VIR and ride with cornerspeed quite a bit. There is at least 2-3 AMA guys there every time. I get to learn a lot and there is only 26 people in my group on the north course. We have a wide range of rider skill in that group (the non-racer group), but I can pass anywhere I want as long as there is "comfortable" space... THese are rules I can deal with...

[Red Rider]

Originally Posted by 02FBlade

I did the first 2 Nesba days at barber...3 seasons ago I guess. ...and they sucked ass! Seemed to care more about their track time than anything else...no tire changers for a 2 day weekend...no PA. Not impressed. Damn yankees! Cost too much for membership.

I've done one TPM day at CMP. I thought it was fine. No complaints.

I feel STT runs really good events. I'll be at barber with them in march.

Although I've never done an STT track day, I've heard from several people who have that their events are crashfests. I do know they had 57 riders on the track in the intermediate group at Grattan last year.

[CBRVFR]

Originally Posted by HondaGalToo

That's gotten to be most organizations, as trackdays keep getting more and more popular and the owners want to make money.

All the more reason to support people like Jim and Trackoholics.com. He runs a competitively priced, well-organized trackday with a MAXIMUM of 45 riders split into the 3 groups. (plus food, as noted above...)

It's beginner-and female-friendly, there's reliable instruction (last year Abtech taught) and he manages to keep the atmosphere relatively free of competitive distractions.

Unfortunately, he has to take the few, less convenient days he's offered by the tracks, because the "puppy-mill" trackday guys have the bucks to keep him out.

If there is a similar group in your area, do everything you can to help them survive.


www.trackoholics.com

[HondaGalToo]

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

All the more reason to support people like Jim and Trackoholics.com. He runs a competitively priced, well-organized trackday with a MAXIMUM of 45 riders split into the 3 groups. (plus food, as noted above...)

It's beginner-and female-friendly, there's reliable instruction (last year Abtech taught) and he manages to keep the atmosphere relatively free of competitive distractions.

Unfortunately, he has to take the few, less convenient days he's offered by the tracks, because the "puppy-mill" trackday guys have the bucks to keep him out.

If there is a similar group in your area, do everything you can to help them survive.


www.trackoholics.com

Absolutely!! If I were closer, I'd attend all of his events. Unfortunately, he's too far away and no one could run something with that few riders anywhere around here; the tracks are just too expensive to rent- way more than Grattan.

[Zippy]

A well-ridden SV can get right by a liter class bike at the end of the straight while the guy who's parking it is slowing down. I used to get dusted by a few guys on SV's myself, because I was that guy who was parking it. Even a RS125 can blow by most liter class bikes into the corner if it is well ridden. The last time I was at Putnam, there were a couple of guys on 125s blowing by most everyone. It was kind of funny, I thought they would be easy pickin's, but they weren't. Sure, I could kick some butt down the straight, but as I slowed, they'd go flying by with speed to spare.

It is true that a lower power bike can't out drag a liter bike, so they have to take advantage of the fact that they don't need to slow before the corner.

It is certainly challenging and requires that the rider develop strong cornering skills to do that on the smaller bike, and it is indeed frustrating until you get there. If your ultimate goal is to have some unimpedded fun, then too much slower traffic can be frustrating. If your goal is more to learn to corner at higher speeds and pass effectively, then traffic forces you to do just that.

If I see someone park it on front of me, I see it as an opportunity to get them on the next corner or so. You need to back off on the next corner to give yourself some slack. Back off enough so that you can corner at your full speed, catching up to them just on the exit, then blasting by with the extra 5 to 20 mph you have on them. They don't see the attack coming, and are already going as fast as they dare, so they can't do much to counter. Of course, if they gas it down a straight and pass you again, that could get pretty frustrating pretty quick.

A few ways to avoid the situation are:

1) Learn to set people up better.
2) Get into the next faster group where almost no one is parking it.
3) Pull off and find some open track
4) Get a faster bike

I kind of miss that now that I'm in the advanced group. It was really starting to be fun passing more powerful bikes. Now I'm a small fish in a big pond again, but I'm still getting faster all the time.

When I ride with other organizations, I find all kinds of skill levels in the top group. Some are not really not that fast, but just signed themselves up in the fast group because their buddy was in there, or their ego wouldn't let them sign up for a lower group. With NESBA, it's more consistant. The groups in NESBA can be a bit of a pain at times, but there are real benefits too. It's one of those things that gets better as you get faster and better at passing. I had the same feelings about the restrictions too, and longed for a less restrictive environment. Now, it's a non-issue.

[Zippy]

One other thing.

With a more open track, it is easier to improve your own speed without having to deal as much with other slower riders. Then, that extra speed you've developed makes it much easier to pass people when it does come up.

It's kind of like a chicken and egg thing. It is hard to pass when you don't have the extra speed needed, and it's hard to learn the extra speed when there is a bunch of traffic in your way all the time.

I don't see anything wrong at all with finding a club or a track group where you can let it rip without hitting traffic. At the same time, I feel safer knowing that I'm riding with people who have proven their skills. I like NESBA for that.

[02FBlade]

Originally Posted by Red Rider

Although I've never done an STT track day, I've heard from several people who have that their events are crashfests. I do know they had 57 riders on the track in the intermediate group at Grattan last year.

I've only done the SE STT days.... I never saw that many riders in one group, ever!...except maybe a 600 class race! Advance group is alway light/half full. I think its safe to say the intermed. group at any track day is a crash fest, as that group has the biggest speed differences.