[Chain]

Hey guys and gal, I've got a few suspension questions for you.

My excursion to MAM for Track Addix is coming up on Memorial Day ... less than three weeks away now. I'm quite excited. This will be my second track experience.

With the help of another Hayabusa enthusiast (a seemingly knowledgable fellow), I've spent some time in the last few days working on getting my suspension baselined (increased fork preload significantly; added about 20mm more preload on the shock; mild increases in rebound damping front and rear; fairly significant increases in compression damping on both ends). So I think I'm at a pretty solid starting point for my trackday.

(I can say without a doubt that the bike feels lighter, more responsive, and more willing to turn in now than it did with the very soft factory suspension settings.)

My questions then.

Are there generalizations which can be made in terms of how a bike will handle on the track with, say, too much of this versus not enough of that?

I'm not looking for outright specifics, but I'm hoping to have a discussion in broad stokes here.

If my bike is running wide out of corners while under power, what should I look to adjust? If my bike feels unstable at high speed, what do I address in the paddock? If the bike feels like it wants to turn in too rapidly and I find myself uncomfortably close to the inner apron, what then?

Thanks in advance all.

Chain

[Red Rider]

These might help give you some guidelines.

Suspension Chart

Don't worry too much about getting your bike dialed in perfectly the first time you hit the track. As long as your sag is set, enjoy the day and make incremental changes only as needed. The more you get to know the bike, the more you'll know what needs to be tweaked.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Chain

If the bike feels like it wants to turn in too rapidly and I find myself uncomfortably close to the inner apron, what then?

Then give the good trackbike back to your friend and get back out there on the Busa.

[mr_rua]

Originally Posted by Red Rider

These might help give you some guidelines.

Suspension Chart

Don't worry too much about getting your bike dialed in perfectly the first time you hit the track. as long as your sag is set, enjoy the day and make incremental changes only as needed. The more you get to know the bike, the more you'll know what needs to be tweaked.

Great solution sheets Red!!!!!

[WetShrub]

Since this is just your second time out on a race track, each session will be SO different from the one just 40 minutes prior that it probably won't do you much good to make adjustments during the day. You are just going to be getting to know the track. Compensating for percieved problems during one session could be totally rectified the next time out just by taking a different line or braking earlier or getting on the gas earlier or any number of changes. Just do an initial set up like it seems you have done and then concentrate on you, your skills, having a good time, etc. Unless you have a problem just work on your own skills, body position, braking points, shifting points. Don't make the day so complicated that you can't handle all the input.

[Chain]

@ Pete.

Thanks RR, good stuff.

'shrub, this will be my second day at MAM, so I have at least some familiarity with it. Plus, Track Addix is a no-session day from 9 a.m. to 6 p.m., meaning I can go out for a few laps, come in and tweak, go right back out, so on and so forth.

FWIW

[tigerblade]

I agree with the others in that you'll probably waste a lot of time fiddling with adjustments right now. As long as you have your sag set close, you probably won't notice a huge difference in a few clicks here or there of rebound or compression. As you get up to speed, then things will change.

For one session at STAR School they had us ride the entire track without breaking 50 mph. I had previously been on the track a few times and not going over 50 completely messed with me. What I'm trying to get at is that at the pace you will be (or should be) going, just get out there and worry about being smooth and the other stuff will come into play later.

[SJ96F3]

Originally Posted by WetShrub

Since this is just your second time out on a race track, each session will be SO different from the one just 40 minutes prior that it probably won't do you much good to make adjustments during the day. You are just going to be getting to know the track. Compensating for percieved problems during one session could be totally rectified the next time out just by taking a different line or braking earlier or getting on the gas earlier or any number of changes. Just do an initial set up like it seems you have done and then concentrate on you, your skills, having a good time, etc. Unless you have a problem just work on your own skills, body position, braking points, shifting points. Don't make the day so complicated that you can't handle all the input.

All very good advice and I agree with all of it. Grattan will be my first track day and I know less than nothing about suspension at this point. I don't even want to begin correcting my suspension based on what I "feel" or "percieve" to be a problem because I don't even understand it enough to understand what I'm trying to correct. What would be a benefit however is knowing a good place to set things to start... for instance if my bike is still at the factor settings for all of the suspension components would it be in my best interest to stiffen things up? Any general advice or any changes you would do to the setup before hitting the track for the first time to allow us new guys to concentrate on the stuff we need to and not more technical stuff like suspension would be great.

[HondaGalToo]

If you've had a knowledgable suspension tuner set your sag and bounce the bike and twiddle with the rebound and compression, I'd leave it at that and ride the bike. I'd focus on smoothness and rider technique. If you find yourself running wide, etc., it's more likely rider error than any problem with your suspension, please don't take that the wrong way. I've been doing lots of trackdays and my suspension would probably have to be pretty far out of whack for me to notice a problem, much less have the fine tuning finesse to figure out which screw needs another 1/2 turn. I'm just not at that level, and never will be. I had my suspension set by someone good at it, and it made a difference. Personally, I just want to have fun and improve my skills, not worry if I need to adjust more stuff. Of course, if something seems really out of whack, the link posted above may help you out. Dunno, maybe it's just me, but I'm not "in tune" enough to change suspension stuff. I'm not racing, so I don't need to shave off that tenth of a second by fine tuning my suspension. Not saying you won't get to the point where you can tell small differences, maybe you will, but for your first full season, I wouldn't worry about it, since it sounds like it's dialed in at an acceptable place.

[HondaGalToo]

Originally Posted by SJ96F3

All very good advice and I agree with all of it. Grattan will be my first track day and I know less than nothing about suspension at this point. I don't even want to begin correcting my suspension based on what I "feel" or "percieve" to be a problem because I don't even understand it enough to understand what I'm trying to correct. What would be a benefit however is knowing a good place to set things to start... for instance if my bike is still at the factor settings for all of the suspension components would it be in my best interest to stiffen things up? Any general advice or any changes you would do to the setup before hitting the track for the first time to allow us new guys to concentrate on the stuff we need to and not more technical stuff like suspension would be great.

The main thing to do is get the sag set correctly and have someone who knows what they're doing bounce the bike a bit and make small adjustments to rebound and compression. Then you're good to go. There will be plenty of folks at Grattan to help you set sag. Abtech knows quite a bit about it, as well as others there. (not me, but I can help hold up the bike for measuring )

[sheepofblue]

And others are hoping to have help Sunday night also

[WetShrub]

Originally Posted by Chain

@ Pete.

Thanks RR, good stuff.

'shrub, this will be my second day at MAM, so I have at least some familiarity with it. Plus, Track Addix is a no-session day from 9 a.m. to 6 p.m., meaning I can go out for a few laps, come in and tweak, go right back out, so on and so forth.

FWIW

That's cool. Some people learn this stuff much faster. I didn't. I would say that only after my 3rd day at the same track did I fully understand what gear I needed to be in... where I could shut off the gas and begin braking, what the most efficient line was, etc. I was just riding. Even then my technique was pretty rough. I'm not that fast now but I am far better than I was before. Only now am I fully realizing when my suspension is bad and what I can do to correct it. Now my lap times are all within a second or two of each other lap after lap. When I first started it could have been up or down by 5-10 second differences easily and none of it was due to suspension set up. It was because I didn't know the track well enough to be consistent lap after lap, nor did I have my riding technique down well enough to put in consistent lap times.

Unless you feel something really wrong, I'd just go with what you start with in the morning and put all your concentration into riding a smooth line with good body position, braking points, etc. Even when you come in, try imagining yourself making good lines on the track. Visualization is a good technique when you are not on the track. Use that time to get a drink of water and relax your mind too. Track riding is very intense and mentally exhausting.

[ccwilli3]

geometry and ride height changes are about all that will change your turn in, stability, etc... Once sag is set, that stuff is pretty much set as well.

damping and what not will adjust how much the bike dives under braking, how it comes off a corner on the gas, how it behaves mid corner just prior to picking up the throttle. It will determine traction and whether you stoppie incredibly on the brakes or with confidence and control.

Just get comfy with the new settings you are using and then stick with what you got and change NOTHING at the track unless you are totally ripping the **** out of your tires... Then go see a trackside suspension guy thats there...

[Chain]

Great advice here guys and gal, I appreciate it very much!

This could prove to be a moot point about the busa; if the Supermoto arrives in time, I'll be taking that to the track instead of the big, hairy 1300.

[CBRVFR]

Chain, I've been doing track days for quite a while and the first time my suspension was adjusted was by Abtech 2 weeks ago! YOU are the most important and adjustable piece on the bike.

I would suspect that the most likely problem you might run into on the 'busa would be ground clearance. So prepare for that by adjusting ride height or preload appropriately, take the peg feelers off ( if you're comfortable with that) and see what happens.

If you're touching pegs or fairings down, you can probably ride around the problem by picking another line, staying on the gas so the bike stays up on the suspension, and hanging off more to keep the bike a bit more upright.

Oh, and get new exhausts. That always helps.

[Chain]

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

Chain, I've been doing track days for quite a while and the first time my suspension was adjusted was by Abtech 2 weeks ago! YOU are the most important and adjustable piece on the bike.

I would suspect that the most likely problem you might run into on the 'busa would be ground clearance. So prepare for that by adjusting ride height or preload appropriately, take the peg feelers off ( if you're comfortable with that) and see what happens.

If you're touching pegs or fairings down, you can probably ride around the problem by picking another line, staying on the gas so the bike stays up on the suspension, and hanging off more to keep the bike a bit more upright.

Oh, and get new exhausts. That always helps.

I recently put the stock cans back on the busa.

You're right on the ground clearance issue on the busa though. I think most of that has been addressed with significant increases in preload front and back.

Judging from the collective experience of people contributing to this thread, I think I'll leave well enough alone and see how the bike handles with the newfound baseline settings.

Again, thanks all!

[mr_rua]

Just to add. It took me 2 full track days to even begin thinking about adjusting suspension on my bike. Even then, the adjustments were very minor. CBRVFR is right about the rider being the most important adjustable variable in the motorcycling equation. Ride the bike first until you feel that the bikes' settings are hindering you from becoming faster. For some people it takes a few laps around the track. As for myself, it is going to take a few seasons on the track.

[Baketech]

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

Chain, I've been doing track days for quite a while and the first time my suspension was adjusted was by Abtech 2 weeks ago! YOU are the most important and adjustable piece on the bike.

+1
Count me in that club as well...did quite a few track days without ever tweaking a knob....other than setting the preloads, which was already done for street riding. I never bumped into a setup issue that limited my riding or safety...

I'm a slow learner though...took me a long time to build any velocity, and I still have guys blow by me on their first track day...

[ND4SPD]

Sandbagger

[sheepofblue]

I plan on bringing a team of 30 mechanics to Grattan to fine tune the RC and change tires

[mr_rua]

Oh one more thing. I'm pretty sure you know this already, but make sure that you leave your ego at home when going to the track. The track is not the place to have a big swelling head. I've found that I need to keep an open mind and be able to listen to any instruction given to me, regardless of it being harsh or not.

While riding with NESBA during a particular track day. I actually got pulled off the track by a Control Rider and yelled at for changing gears too much and not being smooth. I listened to him intently and took his advice to heart. After that I became a much smoother rider, took the correct lines and became a tad faster.

[Chain]

Originally Posted by mr_rua

Oh one more thing. I'm pretty sure you know this already, but make sure that you leave your ego at home when going to the track.

I consider myself a mature enthusiast who knows his own limits. I'm not competitive on the bike. FWIW.