[Scratch]

Ok don't really know where to start, this is kind of ****ed up and I'd like to get the forum's take on it. I'll try to make it brief and hopefully I'll succeed.

A very, very nice guy died on my first ever track day. I watched the whole thing from behind the fence and I was horrified, not so much by what happened but the aftermath.

Standing there with a friend and watching these two guys rail this turn was fun. We commented that the guys were kicking ass and holding a great line. Next time around, Shannon aka "Ytrap" highsided, and then got hit (hard) by the bike following him. I stood there for a minute not fully grasping the situation and waiting for both riders to stand up. The 2nd rider (guy who made contact with Shannon) did everything he could to avoid the fallen rider, but with nanoseconds to react, there weren't many choices and the unthinkable happened. The 2nd rider hopped right up and ran over to his bike. We watched for Shannon to get up but he didn't. Medics came and all that, few more minutes, then a few more and still no movement. Finally the flight for life helicopter came and took him off to the hospital.

I kept up with any and all updates posted on the local riding boards. He was doing bad for a bit, then a little bit better, then suddenly a stroke and a day later he was dead (about the 5th or 6th day after the crash took place).

I still remember talking to him before he went out for his session. He knew I was a n00b and he was notorious for helping people out with any and all problems, especially the noob's like me and anyone in general that had any type of problem, wether it be bike related or whatever. He joked with me as he lent me his "kawi green" painter's tape to tape over my lights that he was giving me an extra 5hp and he would need the tape back later on. That was the last time I talked to him.

We all hoped and prayed he would pull through. But the brain swelling, broken clavicle, broken ribs, punctured lung and finally the stroke he endured while being in a coma was too much for his body to take. He left behind a wife and two girls. He was loved and respected by many people and I still can't wrap my mind around all of this.

RIP Shannon, good men like you should't die this young, apparently God wanted you closer to him.





While he was hospitalized a few close friends of his, in particular a few guys that were largely responsible for me finally getting to the track announced that they would quit riding track. Though I can understand their feelings of watching his family suffer and not wanting to put their families through the same it still left me feeling, well, confused. All these guys ever said was "get to the track" ... " get to the track" "it's safer, it's more fun, it's where you should be riding" "Get off the streets before something bad happens". I rode with them a few times on the street before they went "track only".

Not counting this tragedy, there were about 3 or 4 other people carted off in stretchers that day. Reflecting back on everything, well you fill in the blanks, what would you think about all this?

After coming home and telling my wife the day's events (she was all for me starting to make the transition to track only riding before this day) she was speechless. She pushed me into getting some leathers and getting on the track in the interest of my well being. Now she's been thrown for a loop and doesn't know what to think, just like me. I was bitten by the track bug pretty bad that day before all this went down. And I'm still excited about the possibility of continuing track days. I really want to ride, always have and always will. The track, despite this, feels like the place I should have been riding all along. It was nice just concentrating on my lines instead of looking down for gravel/sand, and looking out for traffic, animals, you name it.

So to summarize my first day at the track:

A good person ends up dying.

A few people are taken off to the hospital.

The guys that played the biggest part in getting me there all quit the following day, and put all of their race bikes, pit bikes, gear, trailers etc. up for sale.

Would most of you take this as a serious hint/sign that maybe I should re-think some things?

What do you guys make of all this? How would you react? What would you think? What would you do.......?

I love to ride, and I've fallen in love with the track despite what occured. But this thought haunts me, I have a family that depends on me.

Do I give up my dreams? Or do I take solace in the fact that he died doing what he loved to do? If I had my choice, I *think* that this would be the way I'd prefer to go out.

My head's spinning a million miles an hour.

[NinerPilot]

First off... RIP to the downed rider. It sounds like he left this life doing what he loved.

That said, I say keep at it. I can only imagine that this being your first time there and this happening would rattle you. I have participated in 6 trackdays or so and worked many more and a bunch of races, and Ive been lucky not to experience that. When you compare the number of deaths per year in the country between the street and the track, the numbers speak for themselves. The track is THE place to be to ride safely. The same probably goes for serious injuries as well. IF you need some time off to collect your thoughts, that is certainly understandable, but dont give up on it just yet.
Chris

[Zeeman]

COndolances to the fallen riders family and friends, and RIP to the rider.

Niner makes a good point about track being safer than street. think of it this way, imagine all those guys that did come off - imagine them coming off on the street, with trucks, cars, trees, fences, cliffs.... You are safer riding at 10/10ths on the track than the street. there is margin for error - and runoff - on the track - there is none on the street. Remember "safe" is a relative thing, just because it is "safer" on the track, doesn't mean you can't get hurt, it just means that there are more safeguards and there are people standing by to help if the worst happens.

Just imagine if that same accident happenned on the street - not only would there have been a long wait for the ambulance, but the other rider may have hit an oncoming car, tree etc. It is tragic that this happenned, and you need to consider if you are willing to face the risks and continue track riding (or riding altogether).

Z...

[sheepofblue]

First and foremost condolences to you and your friends family.

Now on to your questions.

As to your family there is risk in LIFE so hopefully you are protecting them with the proper amount of life and long term disability insurance in case you had a crippling or fatal accident.

Yes the track is generally safer. You have better gear, a controlled environment, medical aid (did not save your friend but the others had prompt qualified aid) and the things you mentioned.

As to the folks quitting that is a knee jerk reaction to the tragic loss of a good friend, understandable but wrong. I imagine given some time most will recant and change the decision

Lastly you were there did you feel safer and more in control? Sure freak accidents like that of your friend can occur (anywhere in life) but do you feel that is a high or low occurance?

May you and yours be blessed on whatever path you choose, I would recommend you take time and contemplate before deciding either direction. This is not a decision that needs to be made soon. Also I recommend you take this opportunity and verify your affairs are close to orderly. Life is full of strange and unexpected events (people have heart attacks, cancer, etc. and find out to late all the time) and I am sure your family is much to important not to employ some safe guards.

[l'timbré]

RIP.

The track is a place where you need to be safe to, keep a margin for error to.

After a couple of trackdays you get faster, keep the limit thinner and then **** can happen.

At the same speed as the street the track is safer, but you start railing at the track, so be careful.

Who the ?&*$7am I to tell you you should keep going t the track or even riding for the matter.

Keep cool for a while, then decide.

Denis

[ND4SPD]

My sincere condolences Scratch

I couldn't even imagine seeing that period, letalone on my first track day. I must admit, while doing the trackwalk at Grattan '04 I was a little freaked out when we got to the spot where a guy died the week before. It gave me second thoughts for sure.

Best advice I can come up with is to take a break for the rest of the year. Let your head clear up, and be there for the guy's family. While most people look at all of this as way more than a hobby, it really is just a hobby. Family is far more important. Talk things over with your wife; you have plenty of time before next season.

[dbgoff]

Condolenced to you and friends family on recent loss.

I had the same thoughts (as we all may have admitably or not) to sell the bike and give up the sport. A friend of mine 3 years ago creashed an f4i while ridding with his wife. He spent the night in the hospital, and she was flown ,flight for life, to a Las Vegas hospital and to this day is in a wheel chair.

Life is full of risks and chances in anything we do. Driving to work...taking a flight on vacation...The Lord could call us home any time. I guess what Im getting at is to enjoy life as we live it and not be shackled down by the question of "what if" too often.

I continue to enjoy the sport of motorcycling and hope that you will do the same. Grief for you friend, but do not let that grief stop you from what you enjoy. I hope these words have helped. God rest your friend Shannon, and best regards to you.

[CBRVFR]

First, my condolences to that man's family and friends. I am so sorry that you had to witness that. In all of the track days I've gone to, the only person who had to go to the hospital had to get a cast on his ankle. And he still posts here.

Secondly, the track is only safer than the street if the people running the event are making it so. Four people carried away on stretchers?? Where were the control riders? That's an indication to me that something is clearly wrong.

That's why the track organizations that I support and ride with have very strict rules about numbers of participants, passing (you endanger someone, you're banned forever) , crashing (you crash, you're done for the day), and generally staying in control ( leave 20% in reserve - this isn't a damned race.) The rules are strictly enforced, and it shows.

Apparently the signs were there for the organizers and they didn't take them seriousy.


This is very sad news, but as Niner said, a properly run trackday is still far safer than the street.

Sorry to hear, Scratch.


Dave

[maxib]

I would also like to add my deepest sympathies to both you and Shannon's family.

In life there are things we must do as required obligations to self and others. There are also things we choose to do because we want to do it even knowing the activity could be risky. Then there are those things we must choose to do because the inner drive, the passion of the individual, leaves no other choice.

Many of us here fit into the last category regarding this sport and I suspect your friend fit that genre as well. Don't decide what you should or should not do right now. Take a breather. Take some time off and then decide.

[abtech]

Originally Posted by maxib

I would also like to add my deepest sympathies to both you and Shannon's family.

In life there are things we must do as required obligations to self and others. There are also things we choose to do because we want to do it even knowing the activity could be risky. Then there are those things we must choose to do because the inner drive, the passion of the individual, leaves no other choice.

Many of us here fit into the last category regarding this sport and I suspect your friend fit that genre as well. Don't decide what you should or should not do right now. Take a breather. Take some time off and then decide.

Well put.

I have been involved in one way or the other with 14 deaths in the past 40 years of racing. Granted racing is a far cry (or at least it should be) from track days, but the similarities outnumber the differences 10 to 1.

Riding any vehicle at track speeds with other riders/drivers doing the same is risky to say the least. If this isn't a risk you are willing to take, then you should consider some other form of recreation. I'm not trying to be a smartass, but think about this:

You are trying to go as fast as possible on asphalt surrounded by various obstacles and several moving 600 pound projectiles (rider+bike weight average). Even with careful screening and vigilant control riders, the variances in skill levels in any group of track day riders is usually in excess of 50%. Now factor in moods, egos etc. and you have a script for inevitable crashes. Some will be minor, some will be life threatening, some fatal. If you aren't prepared for every aspect of this scenario, then you don't belong on the track.

My condolences to your friend and his family.

[JAMI6989]

Hang in there dude! Sounds like a pretty crazy few days for you so like some have said, take a step away for a while and reevaluate the situation/future. Riding bikes is dangerous, that's the bottom line. If you don't know that when u fire up the bike, you shouldn't be on it!

RIP downed rider!

[phobiaphobe]

I'm with the others who suggest you take a break before making any rash decisions.

If you do decide that sport motorcycles, road or track, represent more risk than you're willing to take, then what about dirtbikes? Or ATV's?

[bwhip]

So very sorry to hear of this tragedy. I certainly understand your trepidation. I've seen some pretty hairy wrecks on various tracks - even had one myself. Fortunately I walked away and didn't take anyone else out with me. That would be awful.

I'll be returning to the track soon, but with a much different approach. I no longer feel the need to beat everyone else out there, but just to have fun and be safe while in a controlled environment that allows me to enjoy my bike in a different way than on the street.

I will also be very careful about only attending trackdays that have a pretty relaxed atmosphere, and try to steer clear of anyone that is riding beyond their capabilities.

[EDDIE110171]

Originally Posted by Scratch

...and the unthinkable happened. The 2nd rider hopped right up and ran over to his bike.

Maybe I am reading too much into this, but the rider who just ran over another rider, unavoidable or not and his only worry is his bike. That seems very wrong.

Well anyway Godspeed to the downed rider and my best to his family.

[Bacchus]

Please add my condolences also Scratch. I really can't imagine what thoughts are going through your head right now, as I've never been thrust into a scenario like yours. But as others have suggested, take a few deep breaths and figure out what you really want to do with future motorcycling endeavors. Good luck with your future decisions...

[K9inAZ]

First and formost, sorry for your loss Scratch. It's always very sad and disheartening to lose a friend or see a death first hand.

I'm with everyone else, wait and see what life brings you.

[doct0rxnick]

That must be tough for you We're all warned when we start riding about the dangerous possibilities of our passion, but are blinded by it. The fact remains, life on two wheels is indeed dangerous... even without "the other guy," aka oblivious car drivers. I guess it only takes one look at this type of event to truly realize that our fearing loved ones may just be right.

I'd like to add my condolences as well, but for you, I can only suggest that you do what feels right. If this scares you right the way out of riding, then I guess I cannot blame you. But if the joy of riding overcomes the risks, as it does for so many of us, just ride as safe as you can and never forget what can happen even when you are being safe.

[Scratch]

I guess if I'm honest with myself there was never really any question, I know that I will be riding for hopefully a very long time. It's my passion, my dream, and I'm not about to walk away from my dreams, even if something as tragic as this happens. I'll learn what I can from it and move on, I wish it was this easy for his family. I certainly wouldn't want anyone to stop riding if it was my turn. I know now and have always known the inherent risks involved with riding, up till now I only thought about it from the "street" perspective. For me the track became, in my head, this ideal place like heaven. Where not alot goes wrong but if it does it's usually not so bad. That little fantasy got knocked out of my head pretty quickly that day with what felt like a sledgehammer.

I think it was a huge wake up call, as if God were saying;

"Just because you came to the track that does not mean that this sport has become safe for you or anybody else. Crashing is crashing and death is death, under controlled track conditions or not."

What blows my mind is how these other guys can just walk away from the sport. I know they were closer to Shannon and his family, but still after all the positive things they kept telling me regarding the track and their obvious love for it well it's just hard to accept. I feel cheated in a strange way, as if I was lied to this whole time. I know this is not a rational thought process, just can't help it.


I may have mentioned it in another thread, but I'll be careful not to mention the organizations name now just in case. This track day organization is well known for it's safety first attitude. However, I do feel that the track day was too crowded, and not just for me and my 'begginer' day but for the other groups as well to an extent. In my group it felt like we lost one every session. Some of that is to be expected since we are all new to the track at this point, I just believe it was more pronounced due to the larger volume of riders out there. That's the only gripe/safety issue that I had about that day other than the obvious. It is a good organization with great people and they seem like they're trying hard to do the right thing by the riders. It would be ideal if they could just somehow find a way to reduce amount of riders on the track at the same time. I know in some other organizations, their group size is usually half of this one, which makes me think.....

[Scratch]

Originally Posted by EDDIE110171

Maybe I am reading too much into this, but the rider who just ran over another rider, unavoidable or not and his only worry is his bike. That seems very wrong.

Eddie to be honest with you at first I thought the same thing and was a little pissed. Now having the benefit of looking back (after replaying the event a couple of thousand times in my head) I have to say that we should be fair about this. Any crash can make any one of us behave in an odd way. The rush of adrenaline and confusion could lead you to behave in ways you normally wouldn't.

I don't think he was aware of the extent of Shannon's injuries. There were still some bikes zooming by as the flags were coming out. The whole scene was chaotic, and to act rational during something like that would be tough to do for anybody.

I pray for him because of the immense guilt that he must feel even though this was not his fault in any way. This is something that he's going to be living with for the rest of his life. Out there, at that moment, he really did do the best that he could to avoid, I saw it all with my own eyes and I cannot fault him for anything.

[SuperDave]

Wow, that's terrible news, sorry about your friend. He sounded like a cool dude.

As to your question, no, I don't believe the track is safer. But, having said that, where else can someone unleash the speeds that these bikes are capable of? In Ohio, we don't have canyons and such to carve up and anyone that flys around over 100mph on the public road is just asking for a fatal accident. The track is what it is, somewhere a rider can exploit a sportbike's power. Safer? Not really, because you're adrenaline is pumping, competitive juices flow, etc. Now you're going faster than you've ever been (consistantly anyway), taking turns where you're draggin a knee puck, rocketing down a straight with riders two feet next to you or flying by you on the inside of an entrance to a turn. You have to learn through mistakes like going in too hot, or bad lines where you're on the edge of the track and will dump it if you go an inch further. Is this safe?

Now I might be the exception, but I've had more "close calls" with dumping it or feeling over my head at times as opposed to street riding situations. But obviously I'm not pushing the limits on the street. So to those who say it's safer on the track are correct, only to the comparison of avoiding obstacles(sp?) like cars pulling out in front of you or turning in front of you or pedestrians, etc. when going over 100mph or leaning through a turn. Not to mention worrying about a semi crossing the yellow.

This probably doesn't make sense (since I just woke up LOL) but "the track is the safe place" is misleading, but if you're going to ride the sportbike the way it was intended, then it is indeed the safest place. BUT, you're now pushing the bike much much faster than you're used to and if your own mistakes don't bring your bike down, there's the possibility of someone else dumping you because of their riding skill (or lack there of). There are always the dickhead Rossi wanna-be ego maniacs that stuff you in corners, or push you out where you have to back off to avoid touching. I have had great times riding at the track, but I've also had to change my shorts quite a few times. Then you talk about it later and laugh and enjoy the memories. I've left early some track days because guys were pushing past their limits and trying to get their fastest laps in due to the track day nearing it's end. They're usually tired, hot, and losing focus while pinning it down the straights longer, braking later, racing their buddy, etc. I'd call it a wonderful day, because I didn't dump it, and start packing it up.

Track days are dangerous, in my opinion. But that's the risk you take in order to go over 100mph and takes turns at 55mph fulling leaned over, etc.
I live in a rural area, so my street riding is not all that dangerous, but not very exciting either. Wow, all this typing for which came first, the chicken or the egg.

Again, sorry to hear about the rider and his family's loss.

[sheepofblue]

Scratch could you PM me the track and estimated number of riders? I am not looking to condemn anyone and will keep it to myself. It is just that Grattan was my first track day (spoiled rotten by Abtech's setup I am sure) and am looking for standards of operation info. Unlike some I am old and slow and not a Rossi in the making, also I have a no pelt puncture policy. So I have no problem taking extra time getting by someone I think is out of control or even staying back from them. Also if I was at a trackday that I felt was being run unsafely (for example the one that someone poste