Having a hell of a time finding the right 'DOT' track tires

Scratch · 10-07-2005, 12:45 AM

I'm having a really rough time and hopefully some of you who've tried a good variety of track specific tires can chime in and help me out of this confusion

As a mid-pack, intermediate rider who's looking for the best stick he can get w/o using warmers I've narrowed my choices to the following, in no particular order:

Dunlop GP
Pirelli SC
Power Race -->>> $$$$$$
Metzeler Racetec
Bridgestone 002

I understand that these types of tires require 2-3 laps of warm up time (especially w/o warmers) and I'm fine with that. Also this is nearing the end of the season and my last few track days will be in the lower 60's/high 50's ambient temperature at best.

Any recommendations based on the above info would be EXTREMELY appreciated. Any other info pertaining to the tires you've tried such as *hints* of when they might be finished or tire pressures you've found to work really well would also be great.

I don't go out there with the mentality of tooling around. I want to push myself and my bike to the limits to see what each of us can do, I think it's important in the learning process(as important as first learning to go slow). I realize that trackdays are not racing and I'm not out there to prove anything to anyone but myself. I'll usually start at the back as to not get caught up in keeping up.

A local "guru" is pushing me towards the D208GPA's. Now I've heard of the out-of-round issues w/ some of these tires but aside from that, what would be your opinion of this as an aggressive trackday tire? How would it compare to some of the others? Do the Dunflops really wear that much faster than others?

I have a feeling that if I could find a good deal on Power Race's my search would be a little easier. Honestly I realize that to truly know each tire you have to try it. Would just like to spare myself the cost of being disappointed (in some cases $300+ for a set).

Flipping tires around a good idea? When dealing with predominantly clockwise or counter clockwise tracks?

I love this sport, I just need to find the right shoes. Please help.

PS- Going to either a 180/55 profile or 190/55 profile would require what modifications for optimum geometry? I'm doing the Penske Triple and Penske 20mm fork kits + Traxxion springs this winter. I realize that some of you set your suspension based on the tires you run, yet another reason why I need to find the "right" tire to carry me to as far as my skills will take me.

I figure it this way, once I find the right tire I'd like to set my suspension up around that tire afterwards, make sense? Or should it be the other way around?

Big time confused, sorry for the long post.

Scratch · 10-07-2005, 12:48 AM

Please keep in mind that for now I do not have tire warmers. Hopefully this spring

10-07-2005, 1:23 AM

Good rubber is always going to be expensive. Best bet is to purchase them on race day at your local track if possible. A mid pack intermediate rider with a smooth throttle hand should be fine on Diablo Corsas for up to 4 trackdays I'd guess.

The Super Corsa is a great tire, but I prefer Dunlop GP's with a 190-60 rear. Not sure if your Gix1k will need the rear moved back or not to fit that size like my 600RR did. Had to add one link to the chain.

You may want to get in on this http://www.getmetzeler.com/home.html ......supposed to be similar to the Super Corsas. My friend has already rec'd his free front

.

PS: I have Chicken Hawk Pro-Line Tire Warmers for sale

.

oldgoat · 10-07-2005, 7:33 AM

[quote=SPEED]Good rubber is always going to be expensive. Best bet is to purchase them on race day at your local track if possible. A mid pack intermediate rider with a smooth throttle hand should be fine on Diablo Corsas for up to 4 trackdays I'd guess.

The Super Corsa is a great tire, but I prefer Dunlop GP's with a 190-60 rear. Not sure if your Gix1k will need the rear moved back or not to fit that size like my 600RR did. Had to add one link to the chain.

You may want to get in on this http://www.getmetzeler.com/home.html ......supposed to be similar to the Super Corsas. My friend has already rec'd his free front

.

PS: I have Chicken Hawk Pro-Line Tire Warmers for sale

.[/quote

Good advice

Zippy · 10-07-2005, 9:42 AM

Diablo Corsa's are fine for a very strong "A" group pace. Little warm up is required, not even bad in rain. Good when you get back on the street too.

You'll get more life and plenty of grip from these. Not too expensive either. These are one of the best short of DOT race rubber, which wears out 40% faster, and provides only a little more grip.

Zippy · 10-07-2005, 9:44 AM

The Racetec deal is a great idea for the price. I'm going to get a pair. I love the Supercorsa's, so these should be great. The Supercorsa doesn't last anything like the Corsa. Last new rear Supercorsa that I ran was pretty much done within 3 twenty minute sessions.

Baketech · 10-07-2005, 10:21 AM

Struggling with this issue too...

So far I have loved the DC, but lately have had more than a few moments of drama on them. Looking to move on...

These threads help....but all the data points are so subjective that it's hard to make heads or tails of them....

Scratch · 10-07-2005, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPEED

Good rubber is always going to be expensive. Best bet is to purchase them on race day at your local track if possible. A mid pack intermediate rider with a smooth throttle hand should be fine on Diablo Corsas for up to 4 trackdays I'd guess.

The Super Corsa is a great tire, but I prefer Dunlop GP's with a 190-60 rear. Not sure if your Gix1k will need the rear moved back or not to fit that size like my 600RR did. Had to add one link to the chain.

You may want to get in on this http://www.getmetzeler.com/home.html ......supposed to be similar to the Super Corsas. My friend has already rec'd his free front

.

PS: I have Chicken Hawk Pro-Line Tire Warmers for sale

.

Thanks, good info. A 190/60 rear huh? That's gotta be an interesting ride, will have to check that out sometime.

You'll have a PM shortly re: tire warmers

Scratch · 10-07-2005, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zippy

You'll get more life and plenty of grip from these. Not too expensive either. These are one of the best short of DOT race rubber, which wears out 40% faster, and provides only a little more grip.

Zippy, the "little more grip" is the part that I'm worried about. It's kind of like that old saying about guns, "It's better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it." Know what I mean? Guess I'm just looking for insurance, though it sounds like it's gonna cost alot.

PS- You going to Autobahn this weekend? I am

Scratch · 10-07-2005, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

These threads help....but all the data points are so subjective that it's hard to make heads or tails of them....

Ain't that the truth!! To continue speaking in cliche's..."One man's trash, is another man's treasure."

There's so much great advice and good arguments for several track day tires that it's hard to make a solid choice w/o actually riding on them. That doesn't even take into consideration the size choices, 180/55, 190/50, 190/55 and the 190/60. Tire pressures, what's better on warmer days as opposed to colder, etc., etc,. etc....

Bake, glad I could do all the askin' for ya!

Ya bastid, sure make me ask why don't ya

Zippy · 10-07-2005, 10:49 AM

Sorry, no, I won't be there. Hope you have a rockin' time!

As far as a little more grip, I don't think it makes any safety difference at all when the tires are that close. For example, with either the Corsa or the Supercorsa, the difference is so small that you are a vastly more important variable than the tires are. Part of that is because the Corsas are that good. Either tire is great for hard charging, but the Corsa lasts. The difference in life is way more than the difference in traction. Either tire is a good choice, and it's your ass, not mine. So whatever you feel, I'd understand.

BTW, I think I mentioned that I was going to full course "Advanced Only" day at Autobahn a couple of weeks ago. It was awesome. There were only 8 of of us riding! We had green track all day long. I burned an entire tank of gas in one session. I did 267 miles on just that Monday, which I think was more miles than any other rider that day. It was a day to remember. Well worth the money.

Zippy · 10-07-2005, 11:01 AM

The recent Dunlops have had some problems when flipped. There has been at least one delamination.

The Corsa / Supercorsa / Racetecs are fine, no reported problems. You do want to make sure to flip it before one side is too worn. They behave fine. I've run some of my best times on flipped tires. If you have some cold tearing, flipping often doesn't help much. The cold tearing just continues, but in the opposite direction.

I started Monday with a new Corsa rear. It was pretty close to done after the 267 miles. I may get another partial day from it after I flip it.

The new Dunlops wear really fast. I am not interested in trying them, for two reasons. One is that they wear out way too fast, the other is the shape, and that I can't adjust my ride height to compensate. These tires are cheap, but wear like crap. Not worth the money, even at a cheap price. No one I know of is getting good life from them.

Edit: Just in case I wasn't clear, I'm referring to the DOT race Dunlops.

Scratch · 10-07-2005, 2:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zippy

The new Dunlops wear really fast. I am not interested in trying them, for two reasons. One is that they wear out way too fast, the other is the shape, and that I can't adjust my ride height to compensate. These tires are cheap, but wear like crap. Not worth the money, even at a cheap price. No one I know of is getting good life from them.

Edit: Just in case I wasn't clear, I'm referring to the DOT race Dunlops.

****, that's what I got waiting for me at Joliet, 208gp's. Oh well not a whole lot I can do about it now. I'll give them a shot and hope I get at least two good, solid days from them which at my pace shouldn't be all that hard. Also trying the 180 for the first time, as well as some woodcraft rearsets and vesrah pads. Lotsa changes at one time has got me spooked a bit but should make for a better ride (I'm hoping).

Glad to hear you had such a great 'advanced only' day you bastid! Honestly that's one of the driving forces for me to improve and get bumped, more track time and better quality track time. Oh well I'll get there some day, hopefully in one piece. Oh yeah gonna be my first time at Joliet, damn alot of firsts but **** it, just gonna have a good time.

I'll try both the Corsa's and the SC's, maybe even some Michelins down the line. I'm gonna keep everything that's been posted here in mind in regards to all these tires and figure out what's the best performance/value for me. In the end there's just no substitute for having tried it all to make a truly informed opinion for yourself and your individual needs.

Our lady of blessed traction please don't fail me now

Gotta go get loaded up....

Zip you gonna make it to Putnam?

Zippy · 10-07-2005, 3:03 PM

Nope, done for the year. I've done 15 days this year, and I don't want to cause any more financial burden than I already have. It has absolutely been worth every single penny though.

Regarding to Dunlops, people also say that the grip is stellar. So at least if it going to wear fast, you get something in return. It is just that there are other choices that also have the same great grip and don't wear as fast.

Zippy · 10-07-2005, 3:18 PM

I feel that you are right, there is no substitute for trying them yourself. It is how you feel about it that really matters, and much of it is subjective. It depends on you, your riding style, the temperature that day, which track you try them on, how fast you are currently riding, what shock you have, and more.

I bought an infrared temp sensor too. I've used it intermittantly to see how much heat was getting into the tires. It also varies from left side, middle and right side of the tire. On a colder morning, they may be only 85 or 90 degrees. On a hot day, 140+.

Once you get bumped to the NESBA "A" group, things do change for the better. There is no real "traffic". Everyone is pretty fast to very fast, everyone has a real body of experience. Fewer riders sign up. There is less waiting at pit in. People go harder sooner instead of waiting until 5 laps into it. Seems like everyone but me uses warmers. For those that don't know, NESBA does not let people just sign themselves up for the "A" group. Just being a racer is not even enough. Plenty beginning racers are not at the NESBA "A" level.. If you're an expert racer, you can be granted an exception if you make arrangements beforehand. This makes it hard to get in, but makes sure that everyone has some skill. If you make it to "A" in NESBA, you have earned it. A few make it within 10 or 20 track days usually involving several crashes, others like me take 35+ days, but with no crashes. I'm now at 52 days with no crashes. But we're all very different. Different paths to the same point.

Sorry for the hyjack, but once you get me started...

10-07-2005, 6:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zippy

The new Dunlops wear really fast. I am not interested in trying them, for two reasons. One is that they wear out way too fast, the other is the shape, and that I can't adjust my ride height to compensate. These tires are cheap, but wear like crap. Not worth the money, even at a cheap price. No one I know of is getting good life from them.

Edit: Just in case I wasn't clear, I'm referring to the DOT race Dunlops.

"New" as in "USA" made right?

Zippy · 10-07-2005, 9:28 PM

I believe so.

10-07-2005, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zippy

I believe so.

The USA front seemed to be good, but the UK rear is a lot better IMHO

CanyonCarver · 10-08-2005, 9:48 AM

The UK rear is a lot better. Doesn't squirm around as much on the gas when leaned on its side. A 190/60 option too, as mentioned above. It also wears better than the US tire. And the newer D209 190/60 seems to give the same grip as the 208, but lasts about 3 times longer. The 190/60 is about .6 inches taller than the stock 190/50, though. So it helps if you have the ability to adjust ride height to compensate.