Help Help Help with my law of sale!!

Frustrated400 · 02-19-2009, 4:22 PM

Hi all im in a state as i have owned a cbr 400 nc29 for the past year with no problems it was my pride and joy and had only 18 000kms on the clock, but due to some bad financial times i was forced to sell. Anyways a guy came and throughly checked the bike and test rode it, after 20 min of looking at it he paid me for it, not even my price but i was desparate so i accepted, i then drew up a contract of "as is" and made him sign it....two days later i got a call saying that the engine had seized and he had only done 150kms with the bike, he is now sueing me for a total refund or new engine (rediculous amount) ..Can he do this? Anyone got some advice for me? as i really dont need this right now
Many thanks
Dean

Jetpilot07 · 02-19-2009, 4:24 PM

as is - all sales final....your defense is how was he riding it, WOT i bet.

heyinternetman · 02-19-2009, 5:18 PM

Check into your country, state, region, whatever governmental subdivision it may be, to see if you are under a lemon law. If you are then you may have to fight a little harder, otherwise you fine. You didn't offer a warranty and its an older bike, he inspected and test rode it, you did your best to inform him of all known mechanical problems and made no attempt to hide any information from the buyer. You even discounted it under your original asking price to cover possible "maintenance" that may be due right?

Even if you are under a lemon law you are generally not liable for the vehicle not being able to take his, obviously abusive, riding habits. Best of luck to you, half this crap never makes it to court and he's probably trying to scam you anyways so don't give in to this sleezebag.

lanbrown · 02-19-2009, 8:14 PM

Do some research or talk to an attorney and if you are in the right, then tell him you will see him in court. I bet he backs down.

bladeracer · 02-20-2009, 2:11 AM

I can't imagine him being able to win such a case.
Also, the term "seized" is as vague as "blown" and could mean anything from a maintenance problem to a complete explosion of rods through the cases.
Even a good strong engine can be destroyed in minutes by a moron.

Surffrog · 02-20-2009, 8:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frustrated400

Hi all im in a state as i have owned a cbr 400 nc29 for the past year with no problems it was my pride and joy and had only 18 000kms on the clock, but due to some bad financial times i was forced to sell.

Frustrated I think you should look over some of your posts and have a bit of a think about what you're saying here. Please be careful with your description as (putting it politely) the above statement isn't 100% truthful.

bladeracer · 02-20-2009, 8:58 AM

Well spotted Surffrog.
If you built the engine and it blew in 150kms then I could see a situation where you are responsible for the repairs - simply as the mechanic, regardless of whether you owned it or not.
Was the buyer made aware by you of the engine problems?

Surffrog · 02-20-2009, 9:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bladeracer

Well spotted Surffrog.
If you built the engine and it blew in 150kms then I could see a situation where you are responsible for the repairs.
Was the buyer made aware by you of the engine problems?

I have to be honest, it was pointed out to me by a concerned Org. member. Nevertheless, I understand that the bike was sold "as is", which may protect Frustrated under South African law. I don't know.

bladeracer · 02-20-2009, 9:12 AM

I just had a quick read of some of them and if Frustrated didn't advise the prospective buyer of the numerous problems he's had to recitify then he could well be guilty of fraud. And may explain his reason for having the "as is" clause in the sale...
Looking at how recent some of them are was the engine run for very long before selling it?

Twincam · 02-20-2009, 4:27 PM

Even if the bike was Sold As Seen, there might be a case if the potential buyer was mis-led.

If you informed him of any problems etc, you should be ok.

Frustrated400 · 02-22-2009, 12:09 PM

Two differant bikes guys , my girlfriend and i have the same bikes

Surffrog · 02-23-2009, 6:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frustrated400

Two differant bikes guys , my girlfriend and i have the same bikes

Then in which case, Frustrated, I stand corrected and apologise for questioning you

bladeracer · 02-23-2009, 9:10 AM

All those problems you were having and never a mention of your other bike seems odd. If you have two identical bikes sorting problems is easy because you can compare things directly and swap parts over.
How much below market value did you sell it for?

Frustrated400 · 02-23-2009, 11:11 AM

Yea im Gana strip my girls bike to fix mine now why didnt i think of that ? And when did i say they identical ? Anyways the guy who blew it didnt have a licence , would this play in my favour ?

bladeracer · 02-23-2009, 11:41 AM

If you have two bikes and one has a problem it's really straightforward to swap components to isolate problems. Why you never thought of it I can't imagine.
You said they were the same.
You said you sold the NC29.
The engine you rebuilt was an NC29.
Either your bikes are the same model or they're not.
If they're not then you sold this guy the NC29 with all the mechanical problems?
You don't need a licence to own or buy a bike.

bladeracer · 02-23-2009, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frustrated400

Yea im Gana strip my girls bike to fix mine now why didnt i think of that ?

Does this mean you did have to fix your "cbr 400 nc29 for the past year with no problems" and that this is the bike you sold?
Tell the new owner to sign up here and we'll see if we can help him fix the bike.

Frustrated400 · 02-23-2009, 4:19 PM

Swop components ? i had bad rings , yea swopping rings to determine a problem is quick and simple...or is it what a retard would say! you decide and dont ask stupid questions...I as in me baught 2 cbr400s one great and one not so great, my girl got the great one, hers to use BUt still MINE..you got that mr investigator...good...so we having money issues and she never rides it anymore so i sold it, i can do this as i baught it, and more like lent it to her...mine is in pieces at this very moment as im trying to redo the rings, you know that simple procedure as you called it....get a grip blade racer not all of us are rich and have 50 bikes to choose from and equipment to work on them!

Jetpilot07 · 02-23-2009, 5:49 PM

bladeracer · 02-23-2009, 5:52 PM

So your bikes are both NC29's after all?
I was reading about your ring problems and the re-sleeving you did was particularly interesting and very cool. Re-sleeving and making the NC23 head fit the NC29 would make a great mod article. Why did it need re-sleeving though?
I am far from rich dude but if I'm working on an engine I make sure I have the neccessary equipment to do the job :-)
Have you heard any further about what failed in the engine?
And you never did any work on the engine you sold?
If you never worked on it then he'd be better off trying to sue whoever did the last servicing. Even then, the failure would have to somehow be proved to be connected to a servicing error. Basically, you need to know _exactly_ how it failed to be able determine your level of responsibility for it.

Jetpilot07 · 02-23-2009, 6:02 PM

forget it blade-wasting your breath... i may be a newb still, but i came to the site to interact with people of the same interests..i see alot of new people coming here just because they need help, and then they wanna get attitude when you ask them questions?
not to mention after they get their help, their gone till they need it again.

not worth it, i'll help anyone, but soon as i get the tude, forget it....

heyinternetman · 02-23-2009, 10:50 PM

I'm a paramedic, dealing with the public gives you a pretty good ability to read if somebody is tugging you along. Sorry dude, even if your not a liar, you really sound like one. 99% of the time if you can't keep your story straight that's because it's not. Like blade said, if you serviced the motor, didn't tell the dude, and it blew, you are not only ethically liable, you are probably legally liable as well. Good luck, hope it works out.