[setanta]

Originally Posted by dicknose

Cant see any reason that the car would be to blame.


The car made sure it could safely pass the other car while in the same lane.


Bike rider was an idiot - I think we all agree.

But I cant see that the car driver did anything wrong - you you would legally be required to do so.

Not in total agreement with you here, the driver was taking a chance trying to overtake that car as there were was oncoming traffic. He made a dash.

[LoopyLee]

Man catches best friend's horror road death on camera as they race motorbikes at 170mph | Mail Online

[ghbzorro]

Originally Posted by LoopyLee

Man catches best friend's horror road death on camera as they race motorbikes at 170mph | Mail Online

Thanks. The article showed enough for me.

[LoopyLee]

I've watched the video carefully on full screen and the 2nd car driver WAS indicating to signal his intent to overtake the vehicle in front.. You can also see when the rider tries to brake to avoid hitting the car.. He was practically right alongside it!

The rider was simply going too fast and given that he was was already at 100mph (and still accelerating), travelling at over 140 feet per second NONE of the drivers involved stood a cat in hells chance of avoiding the collision..

[setanta]

Originally Posted by LoopyLee

I've watched the video carefully on full screen and the 2nd car driver WAS indicating to signal his intent to overtake the vehicle in front.. You can also see when the rider tries to brake to avoid hitting the car.. He was practically right alongside it!

The rider was simply going too fast and given that he was was already at 100mph (and still accelerating), travelling at over 140 feet per second NONE of the drivers involved stood a cat in hells chance of avoiding the collision..

When the rider decided to overtake he had to speed up, to me the speed is irrelevent here. It was his fatally bad obs that killed him.
1) He was way to close to the cars (6 feet to his right he would have been safe)
2) He should have thought about that car "maybe" going for the overtake
3) Getting caught up in the wheels of the truck killed him and it didnt matter what speed he went into them.
4) Road position of the car was a warning of a possible manouver.

Mind you he probable thought that he had to get passed before the oncoming traffic, this would have taken his mind off the rest of the scenario

Car indicating, well peeps, manouver then indicate, seen it to many times.

No matter how we look at it, its still a shame, one mistake and the journey is over. We all filter through traffic its part of the fun, he just got it slightly wrong and paid dearly.

Sad very Sad

[LoopyLee]

The speed isn't irrelevant.. If he had been doing 60mph, say, he would have been further back in the line of traffic when the car went to overtake.

But he wasn't.. he was trying to overtake the car in the wrong place in excess of 100mph, after having ridden about at speeds of up to 170mph..

On the Devon & Cornwall Police website it says the camera bike rider was summonsed to appear in court charged with 29 separate counts, including excess speed and dangerous driving whilst riding a motorcycle. People who ride like that do nothing more than add to the argument against bikes by the non-riding public, the police and others in authority.

The guy on the camera bike has to live with watching his best friend die for the rest of his life, but both he and his friend CHOSE to ride like that, no one MADE them do it.. The dead guys family have lost a loved one, and I do feel sympathy for them...

But what about the other poor buggers out on the road that day.. The car driver who side swiped the bike and then watched as it shot across the road.. The campervan owners who ran the biker over and ripped him apart.. The other car owners in the vicinity who saw what happened.. and lastly the police, fire brigade and ambulance crews who had to clean that mess up?

They are the ones I feel sorry for, those who had absolutely nothing to do with the way those two chose to ride that day..

[setanta]

Originally Posted by LoopyLee

The speed isn't irrelevant.. If he had been doing 60mph, say, he would have been further back in the line of traffic when the car went to overtake.

But he wasn't.. he was trying to overtake the car in the wrong place in excess of 100mph, after having ridden about at speeds of up to 170mph..

On the Devon & Cornwall Police website it says the camera bike rider was summonsed to appear in court charged with 29 separate counts, including excess speed and dangerous driving whilst riding a motorcycle. People who ride like that do nothing more than add to the argument against bikes by the non-riding public, the police and others in authority.

The guy on the camera bike has to live with watching his best friend die for the rest of his life, but both he and his friend CHOSE to ride like that, no one MADE them do it.. The dead guys family have lost a loved one, and I do feel sympathy for them...

But what about the other poor buggers out on the road that day.. The car driver who side swiped the bike and then watched as it shot across the road.. The campervan owners who ran the biker over and ripped him apart.. The other car owners in the vicinity who saw what happened.. and lastly the police, fire brigade and ambulance crews who had to clean that mess up?

They are the ones I feel sorry for, those who had absolutely nothing to do with the way those two chose to ride that day..

I beg to differ, and then there is the other arguement, if he had blasted past he would have overtaken before the driver decided to pull out.

It was his mind set that killed him

[tattyswad]

I think its good to remember that if you dont learn from others and your own mistakes then your destined to repeat them. The pastime that we all partake of, is a higher risk than most other road users, and to that end if one person lives to ride another day then idiot or not the riders death hasnt gone completely in vain.

[BigBassTurd]

Ok I have to agree with the driver not being at fault here. I have almost been taken out from behind by another bike who was filtering way to fast. Again I was on my bike and filtering, weaving between cars that had about a car length between them. Looked over my right shoulder, threw the right blinker on, looked over my right shoulder again and see the front of the car in the next lane is far enough behind so I start to merge. All of a sudden this douche blows by me way over the speed limit and almost clips me on the rightside. We get to the light and he tells me I pulled out right in front of him and I should pay more attention. I was floored ! I just said sorry and bit my lip knowing the world wouldn't have to deal with his stupidity for much longer with him riding like that.

[bumble blade]

one things for sure you 'll only make a fatal error once in your life.
it must be 20 years since i first got on a 125cc bike and started riding.
bikes have come a long way.brakes are better, bikes are smoother,suspensions better(making control of the bike far better).bikes are a hell of a lot faster.we now hold on for dear life whenever we blip the throttle. but in my 20 years the one thing that has'nt changed is are vulnerability. bare this in mind next time you want to ride at over 100mph on a busy road. and those who have seen the video try and remember this guy in the back of your mind.think of his family then take a moment to think about how your wife, mother or children will feel when they get that call.

[vville123]

Originally Posted by bumble blade

one things for sure you 'll only make a fatal error once in your life.
it must be 20 years since i first got on a 125cc bike and started riding.
bikes have come a long way.brakes are better, bikes are smoother,suspensions better(making control of the bike far better).bikes are a hell of a lot faster.we now hold on for dear life whenever we blip the throttle. but in my 20 years the one thing that has'nt changed is are vulnerability. bare this in mind next time you want to ride at over 100mph on a busy road. and those who have seen the video try and remember this guy in the back of your mind.think of his family then take a moment to think about how your wife, mother or children will feel when they get that call.

Kissing my wife and kid goodbye in the morning and them telling me to be careful makes me take it easy out there.

In my younger days it was WOT everywhere.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by bumble blade

one things for sure you 'll only make a fatal error once in your life.
it must be 20 years since i first got on a 125cc bike and started riding.
bikes have come a long way.brakes are better, bikes are smoother,suspensions better(making control of the bike far better).bikes are a hell of a lot faster.we now hold on for dear life whenever we blip the throttle. but in my 20 years the one thing that has'nt changed is are vulnerability. bare this in mind next time you want to ride at over 100mph on a busy road. and those who have seen the video try and remember this guy in the back of your mind.think of his family then take a moment to think about how your wife, mother or children will feel when they get that call.

Everyone seems to forget it wasnt the 100+ speed that killed him.

[vville123]

Originally Posted by setanta

Everyone seems to forget it wasnt the 100+ speed that killed him.

I'll agree, take speed out of the picture and due to his lack of sense / riding ability there still would have been a wreck. Maybe not that day but eventually riding like a jackass will get you every time.

[bumble blade]

Originally Posted by setanta

Everyone seems to forget it wasnt the 100+ speed that killed him.

setanta are you seriously saying if this guy was traveling at 10mph the outcome would have been the same.of course his speed was the overall cause of his tragic accident.swerving at that speed is always more difficult as your momentum automaticaly carries you forward. also braking takes a greater distance to stop .if he was'nt traveling at that speed he would'nt have been able to reach the car at that point in time either so he would be here today to tell his tale of near miss.and defend his own actions.come on.

[Twincam]

Originally Posted by setanta

I beg to differ, and then there is the other arguement, if he had blasted past he would have overtaken before the driver decided to pull out.

It was his mind set that killed him

Setanta... I see where you are coming from, but I do think speed played a very large part of this...

If he was travelling at say 50MPH, his thinking time would have increased along with the time in which he would have been able to take action.

Due to him riding at an increased pace, this reduced his time which would allowed him to think and act when the car pulled out. By the time he had had time to think about the car pulling out, it was far too late.

Its a sad thing to watch, my heart goes out to his family and those affected around him.

RIP.

[LoopyLee]

I think I read somewhere today that the stopping distance at 100mph is over 800 feet.. There was no way on this earth he could have stopped in time, thats practically the distance back to the roundabout they had just gone round!!!!!

At the rate he was going he wouldn't have had any distance at all to react to the car pulling out to overtake.. By the time it probably registered what was happening in front of him it was already too late.. You can see from the video exactly when he started to brake, right before he and the car connected and by then his fate was already sealed..

You can see the chain of events clearly in the video..

The car out in front moves in to the left - to me that means it's going to let the car behind it passed..

The second car moves over to the right a bit - to me it's probably going to overtake...

The car indicates that it's going to overtake.. You can bet any money you like that the car driver had absolutely no idea how fast the bike was going IF they even saw it in their mirrors, as not many car drivers can judge our speeds on the road..

And all the time this was going on the rider was gunning it down the road.. At the SPEED he was going he stood absolutely no chance of avoiding the car pulling out to overtake..

Maybe that saying of SSB's dad is true - ANY accident you have is your own fault..

He should not have attempted an overtake manouevre on the hatch road markings - they are there to keep the lanes of traffic AWAY from each other.. But in all honesty I dont think the car should have tried to overtake there either!

He should not have tried an overtake manouevre with traffic coming the other way as close as they were..

But most of all - He SHOULD NOT have been riding at those speeds on a busy road..

[sheepofblue]

I find it interesting that some think the car is to blame like it matters. Where I grew up they had these double bottom gravel trucks that had a second one in tow, we called them gravel trains. If you pulled into the path of one on ANY vehicle the best you could hope for was serious injury. The local saying was "the superior vehicle ALWAYS has the right of way". Consider that when riding as no matter how 'right' you are you will lose if you are on a bike. I ride a decent bit on the street and may one day be tenderized by a car but I do my best to practice ride like everyone is out to kill you or someone will.

[Twincam]

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

... I do my best to practice ride like everyone is out to kill you or someone will.

I follow that rule too.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by bumble blade

setanta are you seriously saying if this guy was traveling at 10mph the outcome would have been the same.

No I was stating a fact not hypothesising, I said when they were traveling at a good wack they were fine.......fact.

Originally Posted by Twincam

Setanta... I see where you are coming from, but I do think speed played a very large part of this...

If he was travelling at say 50MPH, his thinking time would have increased along with the time in which he would have been able to take action.

Due to him riding at an increased pace, this reduced his time which would allowed him to think and act when the car pulled out. By the time he had had time to think about the car pulling out, it was far too late.

Its a sad thing to watch, my heart goes out to his family and those affected around him.

RIP.

I agree with you totally

Originally Posted by LoopyLee

I think I read somewhere today that the stopping distance at 100mph is over 800 feet.. There was no way on this earth he could have stopped in time, thats practically the distance back to the roundabout they had just gone round!!!!!

At the rate he was going he wouldn't have had any distance at all to react to the car pulling out to overtake.. By the time it probably registered what was happening in front of him it was already too late.. You can see from the video exactly when he started to brake, right before he and the car connected and by then his fate was already sealed..


And all the time this was going on the rider was gunning it down the road.. At the SPEED he was going he stood absolutely no chance of avoiding the car pulling out to overtake..



He should not have attempted an overtake manouevre on the hatch road markings - they are there to keep the lanes of traffic AWAY from each other.. But in all honesty I dont think the car should have tried to overtake there either!

He should not have tried an overtake manouevre with traffic coming the other way as close as they were..

But most of all - He SHOULD NOT have been riding at those speeds on a busy road..

The braking distances needs to be updated quite a bit, but reaction time dosnt. Overtakng those cars was an iffy move but not a completely insane one but what was completely foolish was his approximity to them, he did not allow for error. As far as gunning it down the road and standing no chance is completly wrong. Once again if he had staid a decent distance from the cars when the black one pulled out he would have been able to slip by.

As far as speeding goes there are a lot on this site that do it, I have never ever met a person with a litre bike that has kept it under the ton. Someone on here recently was saying what a good blast they had and they speed the got up to was faster than when the guy hit the car. So lets be a little bit more honest and less angelic, I know its a nanny site but we are all adults

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

I do my best to practice ride like everyone is out to kill you or someone will.

Yes me too, its a good rule

[dicknose]

Originally Posted by setanta

Not in total agreement with you here, the driver was taking a chance trying to overtake that car as there were was oncoming traffic. He made a dash.

Yes the car driver was taking a chance - but he wasnt the one who went onto the wrong side of the road.

The bike rider was attempting to be 3 abreast in a single lane. Pretty sure thats illegal everywhere if this involves cars (I know here its illegal to be 1 car and 2 bikes wide, you are only allowed to be 3 bikes wide and even then only if overtaking)

Remove the left hand car from the situation - what if there was a pothole and the car moved over to miss it. No requirement to signal if you are simply moving within your own lane. And if the bike is behind you when you do then you dont have to avoid the bike - its the vehicle behinds obligation to safely pass if they attempt it in the same lane.


So I think the car indicating is totally irrelevent. There is no requirement to do so when moving in your own lane.

The earlier footage of going very fast simply gives us the idea that these riders were out for a joyride and safety was not something that they understood or cared about.

[dicknose]

Originally Posted by setanta

I beg to differ, and then there is the other arguement, if he had blasted past he would have overtaken before the driver decided to pull out.

It was his mind set that killed him

But the speed was very important.
The speed meant that he didnt have time to see if the overtake was safe.
Sure faster could have got him past earlier and safely - but that would be luckier, not safer!

By going that speed he didnt give himself time to see if this was safe.
Clearly he didnt notice the car on the left that had moved over. Cause if he did then deciding to pass at that point was clearly never going to work.

Sure the mind set played a huge role. But the speed was there because he wasnt going "pass car, slow, see if safe, pass next car" - he was just treating the spare room in the lane as his own lane and going way too fast to see problems or to avoid them.

This was more than just a simple - unsafe overtake.
It was an unsafe overtake because his speed didnt give him time to check if it was safe.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by dicknose

Yes the car driver was taking a chance - but he wasnt the one who went onto the wrong side of the road.

The bike rider was attempting to be 3 abreast in a single lane. Pretty sure thats illegal everywhere if this involves cars (I know here its illegal to be 1 car and 2 bikes wide, you are only allowed to be 3 bikes wide and even then only if overtaking)

Remove the left hand car from the situation - what if there was a pothole and the car moved over to miss it. No requirement to signal if you are simply moving within your own lane. And if the bike is behind you when you do then you dont have to avoid the bike - its the vehicle behinds obligation to safely pass if they attempt it in the same lane.


So I think the car indicating is totally irrelevent. There is no requirement to do so when moving in your own lane.

The earlier footage of going very fast simply gives us the idea that these riders were out for a joyride and safety was not something that they understood or cared about.

Driver was going onto the other side of the road, he had to to get past the white car. He had to at least cross the lines. Not sure what you mean about 3 abreast? Pot hole scenario is a good one which is another reason to stay well away. Coming off a roundabout its a high percentage of someone overtaking. Bike was doing it so why shouldnt the car do it?

[dicknose]

Originally Posted by setanta

No I was stating a fact not hypothesising, I said when they were traveling at a good wack they were fine.......fact.

Sure - speed doesnt kill.

But speed at the wrong time/place does.

This was definitely not a safe speed for this situation.
It was nothing to do with "leaving space".

It would be illegal to go 3 wide and attempt to overtake someone who was overtaking someone else.
Not only illegal, but downright stupid.

His speed put him in the position that he was committed to the

Overtakng those cars was an iffy move but not a completely insane one

It was totally insane once he was at a speed such that he was committed to overtaking. He wasnt in his own lane - go that fast in a lane of traffic and HOPE than no one moves within the lane is insane.

As far as speeding goes there are a lot on this site that do it, I have never ever met a person with a litre bike that has kept it under the ton. Someone on here recently was saying what a good blast they had and they speed the got up to was faster than when the guy hit the car.

Sure!
But I would never go that fast in traffic.
Definitely wouldnt dream of going that fast in the same lane as someone else.

Hell I will slow down to less than the speed limit if my lane is moving but the lane next to me is slow or stopped.

Speed difference is worst than speed.

This was a huge case of speed difference being so high that he didnt have time to see problems and didnt have time to react.

It was totally about speed.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by dicknose

Sure the mind set played a huge role. But the speed was there because he wasnt going "pass car, slow, see if safe, pass next car" - he was just treating the spare room in the lane as his own lane and going way too fast to see problems or to avoid them.

This was more than just a simple - unsafe overtake.
It was an unsafe overtake because his speed didnt give him time to check if it was safe.

Yes I agree with you but you cant take away the factor tha if he had done this manouver lets say 6 feet away from the cars instead of less than 2, he wauld have had room to manouver pass the car.
Also he wasnt checking anything he just went for go

[setanta]

I see all your points and Ive figured out what you mean by 3 abreast. When he overtook he was going two abreast, basically filtering and he didnt allow for any change in the traffic situation. Thus the main reason he found himself hitting that car, he should have allowed for changes, the car "body languge" was a good indicator that he was going to overtake but because the biker was about a foot away from him and not paying atttention he got hit or rather he hit the car.
There was tons of room for the biker to get pass, he just did it all wrong.
The manouver done in this manner was insane well very careless

[WyoJames]

[setanta]

Originally Posted by WyoJames

Yes I have to agree with you.

Another thing that is troubling me and Im at fault as much as anyone..............I hope none of the relatives read this thread.

[LoopyLee]

Originally Posted by setanta

Yes I have to agree with you.

Another thing that is troubling me and Im at fault as much as anyone..............I hope none of the relatives read this thread.

I've deliberately not added the names of the people involved and if you check the interweb there are similar threads, many much worse than this, all over the place..

[macca9540]

Originally Posted by setanta

Yes I have to agree with you.

Another thing that is troubling me and Im at fault as much as anyone..............I hope none of the relatives read this thread.

Originally Posted by LoopyLee

I've deliberately not added the names of the people involved and if you check the interweb there are similar threads, many much worse than this, all over the place..

This brings back some bad memories, RIP mate!

[setanta]

Originally Posted by LoopyLee

I've deliberately not added the names of the people involved and if you check the interweb there are similar threads, many much worse than this, all over the place..

Two wrongs dont make a right