POWER SHIFTING / SPEED SHIFTING - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 43 Old 02-27-2008, 5:41 PM Thread Starter
 
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POWER SHIFTING / SPEED SHIFTING

I USE POWER SHIFTING AND SPEED SHIFTING ON MY OPEL OPC ON THE TRACK AND IT'S AWESOME. RECENTLY TRIED IT ON MY BIKE, EVEN BETTER TO THE POINT OF ALMOST BLISSFUL COMPARED TO NORMAL SHIFTING. CHANGING IS INSTANTANEOUS WITH IMMEDIATE AND SMOOTH POWER TRANSMISSION FROM CHAIN TO WHEEL. POWER SHIFTING IS THE CHANGING OF GEARS WHILE HOLDING THE THROTTLE AT HIGH REVS,SAY 8 TO 9000RPM'S. SPEED SHIFTING IS THE UPSHIFTING OR DOWNSHIFTING AT LOWER RPM'S SAY 4-5000. TAKES SOME PRACTICE THOUGH. MY QUARTER MILE IMPROVED FROM 11.9 SECS TO 10.5 SECS. AMAZING. TRY IT.
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post #2 of 43 Old 02-27-2008, 10:15 PM
 
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Re: POWER SHIFTING / SPEED SHIFTING

I used to do this on my Yamaha. Right away it started kicking out of second gear. I tore the transmission apart and the edges of the gears were rounded. I replaced the shift forks and continued clutchless shifting. With in a couple of months the same thing happened. I figured I failed to assemble the transmission correctly. So I took it to a shop. The owner explained to me that by not using the clutch there is still a little pressure on the gears and over a period of time it rounds the edge of the gears until it gets to were under pressure the worn gears would kick out. I didn't know what to think of this because I used to always clutchless shift in dump trucks and never had a problem. But twice I actually saw my gears and they were visibly damaged. So I quit and never had a problem since. It might have also just been that Yamaha too because I had that thing apart as much as I rode it. Sold it and got my Honda. Maybe if I had a track bike I would try it again but as for my street bike I couldn't make myself speed shift it. I know there are some serious motorcycle mechanics on this forum that know a lot more about this than I do and now I am curious.
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post #3 of 43 Old 02-28-2008, 2:15 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: POWER SHIFTING / SPEED SHIFTING

good point. thanks for that tip. now you've scared me a bit. makes perfect sense though. the last hing i would want to do on this forum is get people to break their bikes. would be very interesting to hear the opinions of some tech guys. holla if you out there!!!

"we born into this world with nothing and when we die we leave with nothing. we own our bikes, they don't own us"
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post #4 of 43 Old 02-28-2008, 2:31 AM
 
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Re: POWER SHIFTING / SPEED SHIFTING

It all depends on how good you are at it. If you are coordinated, blipping the throttle/upshifting in my opinion won't do any noticeable harm to the dogs on your gears. I've been working on bikes lil over 20 years more as a hobby than anything else, and I've done a ton of transmissions. I've also been dragracing since 96 using an airshifter which is same principle (unloading the tranny while shifting). As for that Yamaha...up until just a few years ago, they shifted bout as smooth as an old KZ.
Just a sidenote...if your tranny ever does start popping out of a gear (usually 2nd), instead of buying 2 new gears, send both shafts out and have the dogs backcut. I had the tranny in my RR done by R&D transmissions back in 02. I just split the cases couple of weeks ago to put 997 kit in and the dogs still look brand new.
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post #5 of 43 Old 02-28-2008, 2:36 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: POWER SHIFTING / SPEED SHIFTING

thanks pal.
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post #6 of 43 Old 02-28-2008, 3:09 AM
 
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Re: POWER SHIFTING / SPEED SHIFTING

There are alot of people that say it WILL damage your dogs, so in the end, it's your bike and your call. If you do, be sure and NOT put pressure on the lever while you're getting ready to shift or it will damage your forks/drum.
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post #7 of 43 Old 02-28-2008, 3:23 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: POWER SHIFTING / SPEED SHIFTING

you seem to know what you talking about since you drag race. can you describe in simple terms how to safely powershift or speedshift with minimal damage so as to improve lap times and so on. will be greatly appreciated. thanks in advance.

p.s. i haer that normal shifting on bikesputs a lot of strain on the chain and sprockets due to the baulking in terms of power transfer that takes place whenever gears are changed.

'we own our bikes, they don't own us".
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post #8 of 43 Old 02-28-2008, 2:13 PM
 
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Re: POWER SHIFTING / SPEED SHIFTING

ok I wanna make sure we have things clear here. Power shifting is when you stay on the throttle and shift without letting off. VERY bad idea on a bike. drag racing a car sure but it does hurt the tranny. my friends mustang ripped off every tooth on 3rd gear in his old tranny drag racing it.


I have no idea what this speed shifting is so I can't say anything about it but if its done at low revs doesn't seem like there's any speed to it and probably not much point.


what you guys are talking about is simply clutchless shifting. only upshift without the clutch. all you have to do is preload the lever a touch and let off the throttle and it'll slide right into the next gear. no harm to the tranny at all if done smoothly and correctly. downshifts always use the clutch.



and the whole shifting of the dump truck. completely different type of tranny. if it was like the ones found in tractor trailers you can up and downshift without the clutch. its made possible because you can go into neutral between each gear, you can't do that on a sequential shift tranny like a bike has.

if you can't convince them, confuse them.
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post #9 of 43 Old 02-28-2008, 3:18 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: POWER SHIFTING / SPEED SHIFTING

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Originally Posted by CBR929RE View Post
ok I wanna make sure we have things clear here. Power shifting is when you stay on the throttle and shift without letting off. VERY bad idea on a bike. drag racing a car sure but it does hurt the tranny. my friends mustang ripped off every tooth on 3rd gear in his old tranny drag racing it.


I have no idea what this speed shifting is so I can't say anything about it but if its done at low revs doesn't seem like there's any speed to it and probably not much point.


what you guys are talking about is simply clutchless shifting. only upshift without the clutch. all you have to do is preload the lever a touch and let off the throttle and it'll slide right into the next gear. no harm to the tranny at all if done smoothly and correctly. downshifts always use the clutch.



and the whole shifting of the dump truck. completely different type of tranny. if it was like the ones found in tractor trailers you can up and downshift without the clutch. its made possible because you can go into neutral between each gear, you can't do that on a sequential shift tranny like a bike has.
thanks, man. you just saved me a costly lesson. won't argue with you. respect.

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post #10 of 43 Old 02-28-2008, 3:23 PM
 
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Re: POWER SHIFTING / SPEED SHIFTING

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Originally Posted by taurag View Post
thanks, man. you just saved me a costly lesson. won't argue with you. respect.

"we are what we think"

here to help.

I guess I can mention something about downshifts that a lot of us know but doesn't hurt to reiterate. blip the throttle when you pull the clutch in so you match the revs to where they will be once in the next lower gear. this applies to any vehicle really.

if you can't convince them, confuse them.

Last edited by CBR929RE; 02-28-2008 at 3:29 PM.
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post #11 of 43 Old 02-28-2008, 3:34 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: POWER SHIFTING / SPEED SHIFTING

well, atleast I got that right. been doing that for some time. good technique especially for those poor guys without a slipper clutch like me. thanks again.
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post #12 of 43 Old 02-28-2008, 5:45 PM
 
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Re: POWER SHIFTING / SPEED SHIFTING

To do "powershifting" correctly....throttle is wide open, foot is NOT touching shift lever, at the same time blip throttle and shift gear. You will know if you have the technique right when it slips into next gear smoothly and easily. Also, make sure you use a firm stroke with your foot so dogs are fully engaged. If you have your foot riding on the lever ("preloading") you are putting pressure on the drum which in turn is putting pressure on the fork. The fork will be slightly riding on the gear which will eventually wear the "foot" of the fork out and that will cause trouble down the road. The thickness of the fork determines how well the dogs engage. Does that make sense? I'm horrible at explaining but could show you how it works in no time.
As for blipping the throttle when downshifting with clutch...Best advice you can take. Like previously mentioned, it matches rpm's of main and counter shafts. Downshifting goes from "clunking" to "nice and smooth".

Last edited by cbr900racer77; 02-28-2008 at 5:56 PM.
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post #13 of 43 Old 02-28-2008, 10:42 PM
 
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Re: POWER SHIFTING / SPEED SHIFTING

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Originally Posted by CBR929RE View Post

what you guys are talking about is simply clutchless shifting. only upshift without the clutch. all you have to do is preload the lever a touch and let off the throttle and it'll slide right into the next gear. no harm to the tranny at all if done smoothly and correctly. downshifts always use the clutch.

As for Downshifts, all you need is a quick flick of the clutch. (no need to bring it all the way in) make sure you blip the throttle up to match the rpms otherwise you will skid the rear. This is something you can practice from 2nd to first in a parking lot. Do it only going straight.
I learned this technique from WERA racer, author Lee Parks in his book "Total Control" - High Performance Street Techniques
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post #14 of 43 Old 02-29-2008, 1:45 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: POWER SHIFTING / SPEED SHIFTING

all excellent points. i take your word on that, 900racer, I mean not too many of us can claim to have split as many trannies as you. so well done and i am sure that's gonna help a lot of guys out there. flicking the clutch is also something that I do often enough, so that's also a great waywingedor to describe this method.
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post #15 of 43 Old 02-29-2008, 5:41 AM
 
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Re: POWER SHIFTING / SPEED SHIFTING

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Originally Posted by CBR929RE View Post
ok I wanna make sure we have things clear here. Power shifting is when you stay on the throttle and shift without letting off. VERY bad idea on a bike. drag racing a car sure but it does hurt the tranny. my friends mustang ripped off every tooth on 3rd gear in his old tranny drag racing it.


I have no idea what this speed shifting is so I can't say anything about it but if its done at low revs doesn't seem like there's any speed to it and probably not much point.


what you guys are talking about is simply clutchless shifting. only upshift without the clutch. all you have to do is preload the lever a touch and let off the throttle and it'll slide right into the next gear. no harm to the tranny at all if done smoothly and correctly. downshifts always use the clutch. And as Wingordor stated, no need to pull the clutch all the way in, just far enough to engage it.



and the whole shifting of the dump truck. completely different type of tranny. if it was like the ones found in tractor trailers you can up and downshift without the clutch. its made possible because you can go into neutral between each gear, you can't do that on a sequential shift tranny like a bike has.
Couldn't have said it better myself. On the track, I routinely do clutchless upshifts as described above. I always use the clutch to downshift, blipping the throttle to match revs to make it smooth.
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