known issues/most reliable - 2011, 2012, 2014 - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
Honda CBR 600 Discussion of the Honda CBR 600F1, Honda CBR 600F2, Honda CBR 600F3, Honda CBR 600F4, Honda CBR 600F4i, and Honda CBR 600RR Motorcycles.

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post #1 of 14 Old 05-25-2017, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
 
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known issues/most reliable - 2011, 2012, 2014

I'm considering picking up a CBR600RR. Based on available colors (I want it in black), price and insurance cost, I've narrowed it down to 3 model years: 2011, 2012, 2014. Do any of those 3 model years have more known problems than any of the others, or is reliability pretty much the same?? I'd like to know I'm making the best choice before buying. Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 14 Old 05-25-2017, 12:43 PM
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Re: known issues/most reliable - 2011, 2012, 2014

2009 to 2012 it was the same bike. 2013 the bike had a few tweaks to it, but largely unchanged.
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post #3 of 14 Old 05-25-2017, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: known issues/most reliable - 2011, 2012, 2014

Appreciate your input. Any differences with respect to problem spots/reliability for those 3 model years??
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post #4 of 14 Old 05-25-2017, 7:42 PM
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Re: known issues/most reliable - 2011, 2012, 2014

I'm not up to speed with the more modern stuff, but haven't heard any complaints about the 600RR eavesdropping at the dealership. Solid engine, solid bike.

Of course it's a Honda, so if it were prone to any type of issue I would say the charging system, but I don't know if any other issues.

My 99 900RR Track Build Link:Track Build 900RRX

My Red Rocker 93 Build Link: Caf 900RRP
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post #5 of 14 Old 05-30-2017, 1:23 PM
 
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Re: known issues/most reliable - 2011, 2012, 2014

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Originally Posted by IanDoohan View Post
I'm not up to speed with the more modern stuff, but haven't heard any complaints about the 600RR eavesdropping at the dealership. Solid engine, solid bike.

Of course it's a Honda, so if it were prone to any type of issue I would say the charging system, but I don't know if any other issues.
Personally, I think the modern bikes' charging system gets a bad rap from its forefathers.

-My 06 Fireblade Build Thread
-Her 02 CBR600F4i Custom Suspension
-My 07 CRF230F sold
-My 97 XR100
-07 CRF50F son's
-92 CB750 She lets me ride it, Jetted
-13 CRF110F, 01XR50 Daughter's

Because 12,000 RPM makes me feel better
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post #6 of 14 Old 05-30-2017, 1:59 PM
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Re: known issues/most reliable - 2011, 2012, 2014

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Originally Posted by Jaybird180 View Post
Personally, I think the modern bikes' charging system gets a bad rap from its forefathers.
Define modern.
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post #7 of 14 Old 05-30-2017, 4:36 PM
 
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Re: known issues/most reliable - 2011, 2012, 2014

With Fuel Injection.

-My 06 Fireblade Build Thread
-Her 02 CBR600F4i Custom Suspension
-My 07 CRF230F sold
-My 97 XR100
-07 CRF50F son's
-92 CB750 She lets me ride it, Jetted
-13 CRF110F, 01XR50 Daughter's

Because 12,000 RPM makes me feel better
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post #8 of 14 Old 05-30-2017, 4:38 PM
 
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Re: known issues/most reliable - 2011, 2012, 2014

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Originally Posted by lanbrown View Post
Define modern.
He said it first!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDoohan View Post
I'm not up to speed with the more modern stuff, but haven't heard any complaints about the 600RR eavesdropping at the dealership. Solid engine, solid bike.

Of course it's a Honda, so if it were prone to any type of issue I would say the charging system, but I don't know if any other issues.
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-My 06 Fireblade Build Thread
-Her 02 CBR600F4i Custom Suspension
-My 07 CRF230F sold
-My 97 XR100
-07 CRF50F son's
-92 CB750 She lets me ride it, Jetted
-13 CRF110F, 01XR50 Daughter's

Because 12,000 RPM makes me feel better
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post #9 of 14 Old 05-30-2017, 4:39 PM
 
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Re: known issues/most reliable - 2011, 2012, 2014

My copy/paste isn't working well on this site I see....sorry if my attempt at funny didn't come across as I'd intended.
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-My 06 Fireblade Build Thread
-Her 02 CBR600F4i Custom Suspension
-My 07 CRF230F sold
-My 97 XR100
-07 CRF50F son's
-92 CB750 She lets me ride it, Jetted
-13 CRF110F, 01XR50 Daughter's

Because 12,000 RPM makes me feel better
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post #10 of 14 Old 05-30-2017, 4:58 PM
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Re: known issues/most reliable - 2011, 2012, 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybird180 View Post
Personally, I think the modern bikes' charging system gets a bad rap from its forefathers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lanbrown View Post
Define modern.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybird180 View Post
He said it first!
I'm just wondering what you consider to be modern when it comes to the charging system. In the past 20 years, very little has changed. The biggest change would be use of MOSFET in the R/R's instead of diodes. However, both designs are still a shunt R/R. The series R/R is actually better and can cause the stator to run cooler because of how a series R/R works over a shunt design. Since the stator can run cooler, the life of the stator can be increased.

Take the electrical system on even the newest 1000RR, it deals with a stator and a R/R. This design is very simple which is why it is used on motorcycles. The design is also very inefficient as well, which is why it is not used on say cars or trucks; they have opted to go with an alternator. The Goldwing also has an alternator.

So the very simple inefficient design that is in use on the majority of motorcycles is why there are issues with the electrical system. A series R/R does cost more; I put one on an XX and never had an issue. It runs cooler (had to cut a lot of the heat sink area off to get it to fit though and had to enlarge some holes) but it does work. Honda using alternators would pose a design problem as to how to run it; easier on a Goldwing, harder on smaller bikes where space is at a premium. So the stator design is just easier to do. They could dump the shunt R/R though and move to a series R/R which would probably increase the long term reliability. The other thing that hurts is when people start putting LED's to replace the standard bulbs. That power savings doesn't help the R/R or the stator in a shunt design.
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post #11 of 14 Old 05-30-2017, 5:00 PM
 
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Re: known issues/most reliable - 2011, 2012, 2014

As far as I know, I'm on the original RR and Stator on a 2002 (and 2006). Now don't jinx me!

-My 06 Fireblade Build Thread
-Her 02 CBR600F4i Custom Suspension
-My 07 CRF230F sold
-My 97 XR100
-07 CRF50F son's
-92 CB750 She lets me ride it, Jetted
-13 CRF110F, 01XR50 Daughter's

Because 12,000 RPM makes me feel better
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post #12 of 14 Old 05-30-2017, 5:09 PM
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Re: known issues/most reliable - 2011, 2012, 2014

On my 99 it went up until about 2.5 years ago before the R/R died. Technically it still worked, but headlights bulbs would burnout about every 10 miles or so. The R/R was letting too much voltage through and the headlight bulbs couldn't take the extra voltage. Rather than going OE I went with a series R/R since they are more efficient. I tested the R/R and it passed, so it wasn't constantly doing it. So I could either spend 30 minutes replacing bulbs every day (plus the bulb cost) or replace the R/R and see if the problem goes away.

Probably a bad analogy and not 100% correct, but think of a shunt R/R that when you want to turn the lights off, you just turn the oven on to suck the power up before it gets to the light. A series R/R is more like a switch; don't need power, don't deliver it, just have the circuit open.
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post #13 of 14 Old 05-30-2017, 9:39 PM
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Re: known issues/most reliable - 2011, 2012, 2014

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybird180 View Post
He said it first!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybird180 View Post
My copy/paste isn't working well on this site I see....sorry if my attempt at funny didn't come across as I'd intended.

I'm picking up what you're putting down Jay

But to clarify, I had to defend my lack of FI/ non carbed bike by prefacing that with the word "more" before I said Modern. Mr Brown kinda touched on it, a bit better technology with the Reg/Rec to MOSFET in recent years, but the systems in general work the same. Manufactures have always tried to make them smaller and lighter, but I think unless there is a huge breakthrough in new technology, it's reached its pinnacle. I remember older sport bikes (Yamaha) that still used an actual alternator. I don't really remember them failing at the rate of the Honda's stator system has in recent years. My 93's was original, granted it spent the last 12 years or so in storage, but it didn't take long for it to burn up the connectors after I rebuilt it in 2014, thus getting the upgraded MOSFET Reg/Rec and a new stator. And even with that I still feel it will only last a few years of continuos usage.

Anyway, it's all good, I remember back in the early 90's when the mid 80's Goldwings (GL1200's) were coming in left and right for stators that failed.

On those they were inside a cover in the rear of the engine and the engines had to come out. Half the bike needed to be disassembled. HUGE JOB. But people did it, and Honda came up with the kits I've posted about to repair the 3 pin connectors. Still seems like 80's technology in regards to the stator, but at least the reg/recs are seemingly getting better.

My 99 900RR Track Build Link:Track Build 900RRX

My Red Rocker 93 Build Link: Caf 900RRP
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post #14 of 14 Old 05-30-2017, 10:16 PM
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Re: known issues/most reliable - 2011, 2012, 2014

Yep, the electrical system on our bikes is well, old technology. Even MOSFET's while better and newer, the same fundamental issues still remain because they are shunt based systems. The Goldwings were more prone because of their use and by that I mean that people liked more lights, heated grips, radios, stereos, heated clothing, etc. All of this required power; so if they make the system too small, then when people started hooking this stuff up, you would be using power from the battery and eventually the bike would either die or you would not get it started again without a jump. Make the system too large and then when all that stuff wasn't in use, the weak point was the stator as it would run very hot taking the brunt of the excess. This is where an alternator shines and why on the GL1500 Honda went that route. The rest of the lineup gets stuck with the old, compact and lightweight route. A series R/R would be a step forward but they cost considerable more. The retail for one is in the $200 range with the street price in the $150. A MOSFET is far cheaper, but even it won't save a stator from death, just the R/R is more efficient and a better design. MOSFET's have been in use in R/C speed controls for about two decades now.

This is from a different forum but still shows what one person saw:

FH012AA
Ambient: 12C
Regulator temp: 42C
Stator Cover
Center: 97 C
Edge: 87 C

Compu-Fire
Ambient: 17C
Regulator temp: 40C
Stator Cover
Center: 85 C
Edge: 83 C


When the ambient temp was higher by 5C , the Compu-Fire still ran cooler by 2C. The big difference is the stator, where the same 5C higher ambient temp results in the center of stator cover running 12C cooler and the edge 4C cooler. The insulation on the stator is susceptible to be fried or ruined from heat. This is why a R/R can cause the stator to fail, the shunt R/R has to do something with the excess and that is to essentially convert it into heat and the stator is where it is going to go. The series R/R is going to essentially switch the stator off by opening the circuit and thus allowing it not to generate AC power. By not creating the AC power, you don't need to convert it into heat to get rid of.

An alternator design is far more efficient which is why they are so widely used; that and they produce power at idle as well. Sure alternators fails but how many 10 or 15 year old cars are still on the road with far more mileage then a motorcycle that has had stator and R/R issues? Companies like BMW even go farther and they have a magnetic clutch on them and when the battery is at 80% charged, they disengage the alternator until it drops down to a certain % and then will reengage. This helps with the CAFE standards plus with better acceleration as you con't need to run the alternator at say full throttle. They also use regenerative braking as in when you are decelerating but the battery is at 80%, they engage the alternator to put power into the battery. This is all in non-hybrid vehicles. A magnetic clutch can be found an A/C (air conditioning) systems. The compressor doesn't need to run all of the time an they turn it off and on with the clutch.

Why doesn't Honda use an alternator instead? One reason is cost and the other is where to place it. Generally they do have a fan in them, so you do need to provide ventilation. They could place it where the current stator is but it would be low to the ground and water could get in them if it is raining out. So there are not many place Honda could place it where the engine could drive it directly. Running it off the head/cams would then also cause issues with cooling and space issues on say any sportbike. It would also raise the CG. Getting access to it would be an issue and would be pretty much right near the fuel tank.

Someone could probably make a lot of money making direct fit series R/R's to replace the shunt types. Same connectors, same form factor, etc. They would be plug and play.
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