Clutch Basket Spring Rattle - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
Honda CBR 600 Discussion of the Honda CBR 600F1, Honda CBR 600F2, Honda CBR 600F3, Honda CBR 600F4, Honda CBR 600F4i, and Honda CBR 600RR Motorcycles.

User Tag List

 4Likes
  • 1 Post By 04600rr
  • 1 Post By 04600rr
  • 2 Post By 04600rr
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 13 Old 08-19-2019, 12:37 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: 07-19-2019
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Clutch Basket Spring Rattle

believe I found the source of my " buzz". The springs on the rear of the outer clutch are rattling as you can see. I've called Bike Bandit, any Honda OEM supplier seems they're discontinued and can't be sourced even from Japan. I guess that leaves Ebay.

Any other solutions for a fix? 04 CBR600RR

04600rr is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 Old 08-19-2019, 10:47 AM
President: Team Full Chat
 
IanDoohan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-28-2013
Location: Connecticut,USA
Age: 47
Posts: 7,113
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quoted: 696 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 102
                     
Garage
Re: Clutch Basket Spring Rattle

I would also guess (no expert here) that centrifugal force once spinning will hold the springs in place and you wouldn’t hear anything.

I say this as back in the day of rebuilding my 93 900RR I shook my outer basket and it the springs rattled. I too noticed the springs had some decent play. Never heard anything in the bike while running, and never had a clutch issue.

I only offer that as information. I know there has been some discussion as what those springs actually do.

I did find this, now keep in mind a CX500 is no CBR, but it was interesting to see the tear down of the basket. On newer models like your 600RR, the damper gear/scissor gear as he called it is now probably part of the crankshaft, and not on the clutch basket. Anyway, good luck as I now imagine you’re looking for a complete used outer basket?

https://cx500forum.com/forum/cx500-c...#/topics/34859

My 99 900RR Track Build Link:Track Build 900RRX

My Red Rocker 93 Build Link: Café 900RRP
IanDoohan is offline  
post #3 of 13 Old 08-19-2019, 11:43 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: 07-19-2019
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Re: Clutch Basket Spring Rattle

Thanks for the reply. I've been trying to determine if new ones all have tight springs. It's primary purpose is to cushion engagement/disengagement of the clutch basket from slamming into the engine casing I believe. I've search many threads that say they're " supposed to be loose not tight" or " new ones should be tight". Hard to say for sure. It seems odd that 4/6 are stiff and tight, while the others are loose and rattling.

My issue is under load I had a " buzzing sound", when I clutched in 90% of that noise would disappear. Thus I began my search down the rabbit hole to resolve this issue, as it was getting louder.

Looking at a Honda parts diagram, I've discovered that the Outer clutch basket Honda Part Number 2210-MEE-000 has been discontinued. It seems the new one is 2210-MFJ-D00. So from 03-present it seems most of the clutch components are the same part numbers. I've compared a 04 to a 2008. The only real part number change is the clutch basket/outer clutch. I wonder if swapping out with a newer one will work? might be worth the try.
IanDoohan likes this.
04600rr is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 13 Old 08-19-2019, 12:15 PM
President: Team Full Chat
 
IanDoohan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-28-2013
Location: Connecticut,USA
Age: 47
Posts: 7,113
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quoted: 696 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 102
                     
Garage
Re: Clutch Basket Spring Rattle

Quote:
Originally Posted by 04600rr View Post
Thanks for the reply. I've been trying to determine if new ones all have tight springs. It's primary purpose is to cushion engagement/disengagement of the clutch basket from slamming into the engine casing I believe. I've search many threads that say they're " supposed to be loose not tight" or " new ones should be tight". Hard to say for sure. It seems odd that 4/6 are stiff and tight, while the others are loose and rattling.

My issue is under load I had a " buzzing sound", when I clutched in 90% of that noise would disappear. Thus I began my search down the rabbit hole to resolve this issue, as it was getting louder.

Looking at a Honda parts diagram, I've discovered that the Outer clutch basket Honda Part Number 2210-MEE-000 has been discontinued. It seems the new one is 2210-MFJ-D00. So from 03-present it seems most of the clutch components are the same part numbers. I've compared a 04 to a 2008. The only real part number change is the clutch basket/outer clutch. I wonder if swapping out with a newer one will work? might be worth the try.
You might want to try your hand at another site that has more 600RR traffic on it. It might also be worth trying to find a newer (07 maybe?) used one and see if it will fit as you suggested. Honda will change the part number (the middle 3) when a significant change takes place in the model or an update has occurred, and the last 3 designate the vendor used to produce it at the time. The first 5 numbers indicate the component class (ie 22100 for clutch). So it is possible with the changes in suspension and bodywork that the middle and last numbers have changed to supercede the old number and may still fit. Worth a shot I guess if its cheap enough.

My 99 900RR Track Build Link:Track Build 900RRX

My Red Rocker 93 Build Link: Café 900RRP
IanDoohan is offline  
post #5 of 13 Old 08-19-2019, 12:22 PM
Supporting Member
 
Join Date: 05-27-2014
Location: UK
Posts: 445
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 13
             
Re: Clutch Basket Spring Rattle

I've heard loose clutch springs cause rattling on several bikes, but I'm not convinced they could cause a buzzing noise. Are the inner and outer bushes in good condition? If badly worn they could be causing poor meshing of the gears which is more likely to cause buzzing or whining.
BenelliBlade is offline  
post #6 of 13 Old 08-19-2019, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: 07-19-2019
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Re: Clutch Basket Spring Rattle

600rr hasn't really been of much help, which is ironic. I found plenty of old threads on there. Thanks for the insight on the part numbers. I'm actually on phone Honda Motorsports. They said 2210-MEE-000 is not stocked anywhere in Honda's inventory worldwide. However 2210-MFJ-D00 is.


Here's a 03-04 parts diagram ( top) Note the guide size of 2mm being the same.

Bottom 2007-Present.

( 2007-present top)
( 2003-2004 bottom)

https://www.ebay.com/p/724-13-16-Hon...ket/1211817007

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-HONDA-...8AAOSwVE9bsqU6
Attached Thumbnails
parts diagram 04.jpg‎   2007.jpg‎  
04600rr is offline  
post #7 of 13 Old 08-19-2019, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: 07-19-2019
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Re: Clutch Basket Spring Rattle

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenelliBlade View Post
I've heard loose clutch springs cause rattling on several bikes, but I'm not convinced they could cause a buzzing noise. Are the inner and outer bushes in good condition? If badly worn they could be causing poor meshing of the gears which is more likely to cause buzzing or whining.
I bought a new needle bearing compared to the old. Seems the old rollers, don't move as much as the new part? Not sure really sure how to test to determine if its bad. I just remember running my fingers over the new needle bearing and the rollers are smoother.
04600rr is offline  
post #8 of 13 Old 08-19-2019, 1:16 PM
President: Team Full Chat
 
IanDoohan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-28-2013
Location: Connecticut,USA
Age: 47
Posts: 7,113
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quoted: 696 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 102
                     
Garage
Re: Clutch Basket Spring Rattle

Quote:
Originally Posted by 04600rr View Post
600rr hasn't really been of much help, which is ironic. I found plenty of old threads on there. Thanks for the insight on the part numbers. I'm actually on phone Honda Motorsports. They said 2210-MEE-000 is not stocked anywhere in Honda's inventory worldwide. However 2210-MFJ-D00 is.


Here's a 03-04 parts diagram ( top) Note the guide size of 2mm being the same.

Bottom 2007-Present.

( 2007-present top)
( 2003-2004 bottom)

https://www.ebay.com/p/724-13-16-Hon...ket/1211817007

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-HONDA-...8AAOSwVE9bsqU6
Going on a purely visual standpoint I would say they are not compatible.

My 99 900RR Track Build Link:Track Build 900RRX

My Red Rocker 93 Build Link: Café 900RRP
IanDoohan is offline  
post #9 of 13 Old 08-19-2019, 11:25 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: 07-19-2019
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Re: Clutch Basket Spring Rattle

what leads you to believe that? I see the older one has some sort of counterweight, looks like a step vs the smooth flywheel on the the newer one. Someone suggested I goto a clutch shop and see if they can fit new springs. That's a idea... I did find a wholesaler who supposedly claims they have one in a warehouse and i'll get confirmation soon. Wish me luck!

So far all the ebay ones will have 4-6 springs stiff and the rest loose. I called Honda Powers ports ( corporate) this morning, they claim they don't have any in their inventory. Only the newer part number for the 07+
04600rr is offline  
post #10 of 13 Old 08-20-2019, 10:42 PM
President: Team Full Chat
 
IanDoohan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-28-2013
Location: Connecticut,USA
Age: 47
Posts: 7,113
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quoted: 696 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 102
                     
Garage
Re: Clutch Basket Spring Rattle

Quote:
Originally Posted by 04600rr View Post
what leads you to believe that? I see the older one has some sort of counterweight, looks like a step vs the smooth flywheel on the the newer one. Someone suggested I goto a clutch shop and see if they can fit new springs. That's a idea... I did find a wholesaler who supposedly claims they have one in a warehouse and i'll get confirmation soon. Wish me luck!

So far all the ebay ones will have 4-6 springs stiff and the rest loose. I called Honda Powers ports ( corporate) this morning, they claim they don't have any in their inventory. Only the newer part number for the 07+
Just based on the design of the rear of the basket and the added support or gusseting around the top edge of the outer part of the basket. Zero scientific basis for my observation lol

My 99 900RR Track Build Link:Track Build 900RRX

My Red Rocker 93 Build Link: Café 900RRP
IanDoohan is offline  
post #11 of 13 Old 08-24-2019, 1:35 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: 07-19-2019
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Re: Clutch Basket Spring Rattle

Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDoohan View Post
Just based on the design of the rear of the basket and the added support or gusseting around the top edge of the outer part of the basket. Zero scientific basis for my observation lol
I got the new clutch basket from 2wheelpros. It came sealed in a box with Honda logo's. They appear identical in construction. The shocking news is that the new one has spring rattle too!!! The old clutch basket seems to have a loose spring in the same area. Starting to sound like Honda does this intentionally for whatever reason. When I called a Ebay store who said they had a OEM clutch basket, I had the seller try and rattle it and move the springs. He confirmed that a few were loose. This on a new one also... Gahhhh!!!

I suppose I can say I "rebuilt my clutch". I'm hoping the needle bearing which is $5.00 will cure it, as it does appear to have less rolling resistance the new one. Anyways, this is getting expensive now. I'm just going to start putting it back together and ride the thing. Maybe this is why the older Honda's have reputation for a noisy clutch basket? Seems like the dampening springs are loose by design a bit. A bit irritated.. It's not like I could speak with a Honda engineer about the design of the clutch baskets or support.
IanDoohan likes this.
04600rr is offline  
post #12 of 13 Old 08-24-2019, 10:16 PM
President: Team Full Chat
 
IanDoohan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-28-2013
Location: Connecticut,USA
Age: 47
Posts: 7,113
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quoted: 696 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 102
                     
Garage
Re: Clutch Basket Spring Rattle

Quote:
Originally Posted by 04600rr View Post
I got the new clutch basket from 2wheelpros. It came sealed in a box with Honda logo's. They appear identical in construction. The shocking news is that the new one has spring rattle too!!! The old clutch basket seems to have a loose spring in the same area. Starting to sound like Honda does this intentionally for whatever reason. When I called a Ebay store who said they had a OEM clutch basket, I had the seller try and rattle it and move the springs. He confirmed that a few were loose. This on a new one also... Gahhhh!!!

I suppose I can say I "rebuilt my clutch". I'm hoping the needle bearing which is $5.00 will cure it, as it does appear to have less rolling resistance the new one. Anyways, this is getting expensive now. I'm just going to start putting it back together and ride the thing. Maybe this is why the older Honda's have reputation for a noisy clutch basket? Seems like the dampening springs are loose by design a bit. A bit irritated.. It's not like I could speak with a Honda engineer about the design of the clutch baskets or support.
I applaud you for going the extra mile and investigating what seem to be new in box parts, but that was kind of my contention all along, that they are inherently loose and that the way it is, but that CX500 video distracted me into thinking they may be worn out of spec. But, I also should have realized that Honda doesn't, and never has, made replacement springs for CBR models.

Let us know what the new basket does once installed

My 99 900RR Track Build Link:Track Build 900RRX

My Red Rocker 93 Build Link: Café 900RRP
IanDoohan is offline  
post #13 of 13 Old 09-25-2019, 9:41 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: 07-19-2019
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Re: Clutch Basket Spring Rattle

Quote:
Originally Posted by IanDoohan View Post
I applaud you for going the extra mile and investigating what seem to be new in box parts, but that was kind of my contention all along, that they are inherently loose and that the way it is, but that CX500 video distracted me into thinking they may be worn out of spec. But, I also should have realized that Honda doesn't, and never has, made replacement springs for CBR models.

Let us know what the new basket does once installed
Update!

So I installed the new basket, apparently even the new part has loose springs like my old one. Doh! However, I'm happy to report that it shifts smooth like butter!!! ha. It was a pretty involved job, that I wouldn't want to do again. From re-staking the castle/retainer nut on the basket with torque wrench at 94 ft/lbs to rebuilding the clutch.

The buzz sound is still present!!! Gahh. Looks like it has nothing to do with bearings or springs vibrating. I looked at the bottom portion of my timing chain guides with the clutch cover removed, I couldn't see anything obvious that indicate damage to the lower portion of the guides. I read someone else had the issue with the manual APE CCT, they suggested looking at the upper portion of the guides for wear. I didn't have access to that from bottom end, doing so would require removing the top end and fuel tank, etc.

Guess I'm back at square one. I mean i've been riding it like that for a year or so now. Nothing has blown up, knock on wood.

Starting to think when I had the shop install it 2 years ago, the monkey who put it on was in a rush. He did it too tight, sounded like a RC car. So frustrated I backed it off and re-did the adjustment myself. If this is the issue, perhaps the top end of the guide was damaged? Hard to say without removing the whole top end.

Parts replaced:

Clutch basket
Center clutch ( which holds the disks)
Center guide bearing ( clutch basket rotates on this)
Lifter pin bearing
Clutch disks
IanDoohan and Gunk like this.

Last edited by 04600rr; 09-25-2019 at 9:49 PM.
04600rr is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org > Honda Motorcycle Models > Honda CBR 600

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
A valid e-mail address is REQUIRED. You will not have access to any site features until you activate your account using the activation e-mail that is sent to this address.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in













Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome