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post #1 of 37 Old 09-02-2012, 7:44 AM Thread Starter
 
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900rr track bike

Just got my first fireblade. It is a 97 900rr. It is going to be my dedicated track bike. The previous owner had been using it on the track (where I met him) and had it half way set up, but I am going to go all the way. It came as it looks in the picture. Initial thoughts: it's quicker than it should be. Pulls a hell of a lot harder than my 07 gixxer 600, and really isn't afraid of any corners. But it's heavy.

It has a racetech body kit-- supposedly 9 pounds lighter than stock or something. I have already tossed the brake light and wiring and stubbed the sub frame. Anything else I can cut off aside from the mounting tabs and kickstand? I would like it to weigh 400 pounds with a gallon of gas in the tank, but that may be a reach. It also is minus the headlight, horn, and cooling fan already.

Anything else I should do make it more track worthy?
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post #2 of 37 Old 09-02-2012, 8:08 AM
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Re: 900rr track bike

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Originally Posted by bagtf3 View Post
Just got my first fireblade. It is a 97 900rr. It is going to be my dedicated track bike. The previous owner had been using it on the track (where I met him) and had it half way set up, but I am going to go all the way. It came as it looks in the picture. Initial thoughts: it's quicker than it should be. Pulls a hell of a lot harder than my 07 gixxer 600, and really isn't afraid of any corners. But it's heavy.

It has a racetech body kit-- supposedly 9 pounds lighter than stock or something. I have already tossed the brake light and wiring and stubbed the sub frame. Anything else I can cut off aside from the mounting tabs and kickstand? I would like it to weigh 400 pounds with a gallon of gas in the tank, but that may be a reach. It also is minus the headlight, horn, and cooling fan already.

Anything else I should do make it more track worthy?

The plastics are AirTech.
HONDA CBR 900 NSR REPSOL REPLICA 92-99, custom fairings, bodywork, fairing, upper, lower, mid, seat side, race, street, fender, tail, undertail, tank
Are you intending to race or just do track days?
For racing there are things that are required like lock-wiring, and things that you may not be allowed to change depending on the classes you race.
Have you weighed her already to see how much more weight you need to remove?
I'd be very surprised if it actually pulls harder than an '07 GSXR6 though, although it's probably a little stronger in the bottom half of the tach. Have you had the GSXR around the same circuit?

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #3 of 37 Old 09-02-2012, 1:36 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 900rr track bike

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The plastics are AirTech.
HONDA CBR 900 NSR REPSOL REPLICA 92-99, custom fairings, bodywork, fairing, upper, lower, mid, seat side, race, street, fender, tail, undertail, tank
Are you intending to race or just do track days?
For racing there are things that are required like lock-wiring, and things that you may not be allowed to change depending on the classes you race.
Have you weighed her already to see how much more weight you need to remove?
I'd be very surprised if it actually pulls harder than an '07 GSXR6 though, although it's probably a little stronger in the bottom half of the tach. Have you had the GSXR around the same circuit?
You're right, they're AirTech. I have never heard of them. Are they any good?
This is just going to be a track day bike. When I get good enough to race I will opt for a little newer technology in a 600cc manifestation. I picked up the 'blade because it was cheap, available, and had everything needed to run on the track as far as safety wire, race fairings, dunlop q2's, ohlins rear suspension and the like. That said, what I could do to it from here is limitless, however, I do not plan to spend any great sum of money on the bike. As it sets currently, my skills are the weak link in the chain.
I weighed it on a farm scale at my dad's work (I'd say +/- 3 lbs) and it read 434 with an empty tank. The previous owner also dyno tuned the carbs to make sure the air/fuel was still on par. He pulled 109 horse at the wheel and give or take 13:1 AFR to redline.
But the reason I say it pulls harder than my gixxer is because of the midrange. She makes 60 ft-lbs of torque by around 6000 rpms, where the 6 is still trying to find itself and struggles to put down 35. Top end, they're about the same.
And yes I did have the '07 around the circuit, but that bike is kind of my baby and I was afraid to dump it. Once I get the 900 dialed in, I am prepared to thrash it.
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post #4 of 37 Old 09-02-2012, 1:46 PM
 
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Re: 900rr track bike

Find lighter wheels. Lower rotational mass as well as unsprung weight. You'd be ahead of the game in terms of goals and not be beating your head against the wall trying to shave 30+ pounds.
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post #5 of 37 Old 09-02-2012, 2:21 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 900rr track bike

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Find lighter wheels. Lower rotational mass as well as unsprung weight. You'd be ahead of the game in terms of goals and not be beating your head against the wall trying to shave 30+ pounds.
Is there a factory option here, or are we talking aftermarket? Once I scrub these q2's away to nothing I am going to try Michelin Pilot Pures. They're by far the lightest tire I have ever held and I have heard nothing but good things about them. Does anyone have any first hand experience with these rubbers?

Oh, one more question... I counted 44 teeth on my rear sprocket last night. By my research that is plus 1. However I still have a 525 chain. I did a quick google and saw some early 600's came with 45 and 46 tooth rears. Would those be a direct swap onto the 900 wheel? I'd love to have a +2 or +3 rear setup for the track but I cannot justify the cost of a 520 conversion at this point (see previous post) but if I could find a used sprocket for a steal on them internets, I suppose I could splurge.

Last edited by bagtf3; 09-02-2012 at 2:24 PM. Reason: continiuty.
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post #6 of 37 Old 09-05-2012, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 900rr track bike

My engineering-student roommate, who does not ride, suggests taking a hole saw and swiss cheesing the frame and swing arm, then wrapping the hole lot in carbon fiber/kevlar. First and foremost, I am NOT going to do this. He showed me that math which I dont understand and convinved me it would in fact be stronger than stock and +/- 15 pounds lighter. Anyone out there ever heard of this? I mean, in theory it seems legit. There is a Ducati with a full carbon fiber frame. I told my roomie it is a bad idea because the frame would then be too rigid. Again, I am not planning to do this. I just want people's opinions so I can have an easier time explaining to him why this is a horrible idea.

Discuss.
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post #7 of 37 Old 09-05-2012, 11:23 PM
 
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Re: 900rr track bike

Actually carbon fiber flexes more than aluminum. Dont beleive me then go ride a carbon road cycle and then ride an aluminum one. I'm not saying its a good idea to follow your roomies advice but it would be interesting. The placement of the wholes as well as the direction the carbon layout would have to be engineered but would be cool know how it worked out.
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post #8 of 37 Old 09-05-2012, 11:51 PM
 
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Re: 900rr track bike

That would be a cool prototype. Pick up a frame for cheap and try it out. Start a thread for it, you'd get some feedback and opinions if you start key-hole drilling a frame.
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post #9 of 37 Old 09-06-2012, 1:38 AM
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Re: 900rr track bike

Quote:
Originally Posted by bagtf3 View Post
My engineering-student roommate, who does not ride, suggests taking a hole saw and swiss cheesing the frame and swing arm, then wrapping the hole lot in carbon fiber/kevlar. First and foremost, I am NOT going to do this. He showed me that math which I dont understand and convinved me it would in fact be stronger than stock and +/- 15 pounds lighter. Anyone out there ever heard of this? I mean, in theory it seems legit. There is a Ducati with a full carbon fiber frame. I told my roomie it is a bad idea because the frame would then be too rigid. Again, I am not planning to do this. I just want people's opinions so I can have an easier time explaining to him why this is a horrible idea.

Discuss.

Any carbon fibre frame still has metal inserts in it to attach things to, like the steering head and swingarm. For ultra lightness they use magnesium. Even carbon wheels have an aluminium or magnesium hub in the middle of it.

It would certainly save some weight but for strength it all has to be vacuum-bagged. It would be stronger in some ways but not all.

I haven't weighed a 900RR frame but have weighed several others so I'd guess it'd be around the 10kg mark, or about 22.5lbs. You'd have to retain the steering head and swingarm mount castings, and probably leave the engine mounts in place so I doubt you'd save 15lbs. But 10lbs is probably achievable - at great expense. Might be worth it after you've saved as much weight as you can everywhere else though.

Unless you're running lap record pace I wouldn't be concerned about being too rigid.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #10 of 37 Old 09-06-2012, 1:43 AM
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Re: 900rr track bike

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Originally Posted by bagtf3 View Post
Is there a factory option here, or are we talking aftermarket? Once I scrub these q2's away to nothing I am going to try Michelin Pilot Pures. They're by far the lightest tire I have ever held and I have heard nothing but good things about them. Does anyone have any first hand experience with these rubbers?

Oh, one more question... I counted 44 teeth on my rear sprocket last night. By my research that is plus 1. However I still have a 525 chain. I did a quick google and saw some early 600's came with 45 and 46 tooth rears. Would those be a direct swap onto the 900 wheel? I'd love to have a +2 or +3 rear setup for the track but I cannot justify the cost of a 520 conversion at this point (see previous post) but if I could find a used sprocket for a steal on them internets, I suppose I could splurge.

The current model wheels would be the lightest, look at the '12 1000RR as an example.
I haven't seen much difference in tyre weights - around 6kg for rears and 4kg for fronts is usual. You'll scrub as much as 1kg of rubber off a rear by the time it's worn out.
Unless the front sprocket is smaller I'd be surprised if you could go +2 in the rear with a stock chain length. Are you pulling to the top of sixth gear on the track currently?

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #11 of 37 Old 09-06-2012, 2:50 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 900rr track bike

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Originally Posted by bladeracer View Post
The current model wheels would be the lightest, look at the '12 1000RR as an example.
I haven't seen much difference in tyre weights - around 6kg for rears and 4kg for fronts is usual. You'll scrub as much as 1kg of rubber off a rear by the time it's worn out.
Unless the front sprocket is smaller I'd be surprised if you could go +2 in the rear with a stock chain length. Are you pulling to the top of sixth gear on the track currently?

Are current-model 1KRR forks a straight swap? I would be all for swapping the front end, if only for the newer wheel and bigger brakes-- and possibly shave a few kilos(?) My uncle has a machine shop; he could rig me up a few spacers if needed.

I don't redline 6th on the track. In fact I don't think I've ever even had it in 6th. But there are a few places I probably need to be in first and I would like to leave it in second.
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post #12 of 37 Old 09-06-2012, 2:57 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 900rr track bike

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Originally Posted by bladeracer View Post
Any carbon fibre frame still has metal inserts in it to attach things to, like the steering head and swingarm. For ultra lightness they use magnesium. Even carbon wheels have an aluminium or magnesium hub in the middle of it.

It would certainly save some weight but for strength it all has to be vacuum-bagged. It would be stronger in some ways but not all.

I haven't weighed a 900RR frame but have weighed several others so I'd guess it'd be around the 10kg mark, or about 22.5lbs. You'd have to retain the steering head and swingarm mount castings, and probably leave the engine mounts in place so I doubt you'd save 15lbs. But 10lbs is probably achievable - at great expense. Might be worth it after you've saved as much weight as you can everywhere else though.

Unless you're running lap record pace I wouldn't be concerned about being too rigid.
I had no idea the frame only weighed 23 lbs. That makes this idea moot, in my opinion.

I also had no idea this idea would be so well-received though. Maybe I will try it on a busted up ninja 500 frame, which may not be a horrible idea seeing as how that will probably be my first 'race' bike as it meets the criteria for the entry level bracket we have. If I do take on that endeavor, there most certainly will be a photo-heavy thread, along with my paypal address listed for donations I know that may belong on the EX 500 board, but I will make sure the 9 is looming in the background to keep things kosher.

Last edited by bagtf3; 09-06-2012 at 3:03 AM. Reason: forgot a word.
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post #13 of 37 Old 09-06-2012, 3:55 AM
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Re: 900rr track bike

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I had no idea the frame only weighed 23 lbs. That makes this idea moot, in my opinion.

I also had no idea this idea would be so well-received though. Maybe I will try it on a busted up ninja 500 frame, which may not be a horrible idea seeing as how that will probably be my first 'race' bike as it meets the criteria for the entry level bracket we have. If I do take on that endeavor, there most certainly will be a photo-heavy thread, along with my paypal address listed for donations I know that may belong on the EX 500 board, but I will make sure the 9 is looming in the background to keep things kosher.

As I suggested earlier, weigh the bike currently so you have some idea of where you're heading.

Somehow I think any frame modifications will make the bike illegal for any race class :-)

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #14 of 37 Old 09-06-2012, 4:00 AM
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Re: 900rr track bike

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Are current-model 1KRR forks a straight swap? I would be all for swapping the front end, if only for the newer wheel and bigger brakes-- and possibly shave a few kilos(?) My uncle has a machine shop; he could rig me up a few spacers if needed.

I don't redline 6th on the track. In fact I don't think I've ever even had it in 6th. But there are a few places I probably need to be in first and I would like to leave it in second.

No, but I would expect a complete front end would go on without too many problems - clamps, forks, guard, axle, wheel, discs, calipers, hoses and clip-ons.

You don't need a machine shop to make spacers, just a hacksaw and a file.

Then I would definately be gearing the bike down, a lot. Work out exactly what rpm you're reaching in which gear at the fastest part of the circuit and gear to top sixth out there. That'll keep you up in the higher, closer ratios and hopefully avoid having to use first or go through neutral while on the track.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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Re: 900rr track bike

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No, but I would expect a complete front end would go on without too many problems - clamps, forks, guard, axle, wheel, discs, calipers, hoses and clip-ons.

You don't need a machine shop to make spacers, just a hacksaw and a file.

Then I would definately be gearing the bike down, a lot. Work out exactly what rpm you're reaching in which gear at the fastest part of the circuit and gear to top sixth out there. That'll keep you up in the higher, closer ratios and hopefully avoid having to use first or go through neutral while on the track.
We have three tracks. I hit the longest straightaway the end of this month. I will get some numbers and work the math out from there. Who knows, if i can get out of the turn smooth enough I may be close already.
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