Other than FPR what causes a 954 to run rich? - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 15 Old 10-29-2012, 2:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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Other than FPR what causes a 954 to run rich?

Heres the details,
02 954
Full Akro system
K&N air filter
New plugs OEM
20xxx miles
PC3 Dyno Mapped
New FPR

Bike was running flawlessly. Installed my new suspension and both Jondog9 and I test rode the bike and it ran as always, super fast.

The next day went to ride it and it was running rough rich. I can actually make the bike stall just by revving it under 2500 rpm. So I thought maybe the PC3 lost its map or went bad. Re-installed my dyno'ed map with no change. Installed a stock map and the bike ran great. Not nearly the beast it was though. So I took the power commander out and have been running the bike with out it. But its still running rich.

I live at about sea level and ride anywhere between here and 7000ft elevation.

Yesterday after our ride Jon told me he could smell how rich my bike was running.
With a full exhaust system and aftermarket air cleaner and no PC3 this bike should be running LEAN What the hell?

What can cause this?

Thank you
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post #2 of 15 Old 10-29-2012, 5:08 PM
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Re: Other than FPR what causes a 954 to run rich?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLouder View Post
Heres the details,
02 954
Full Akro system
K&N air filter
New plugs OEM
20xxx miles
PC3 Dyno Mapped
New FPR

Bike was running flawlessly. Installed my new suspension and both Jondog9 and I test rode the bike and it ran as always, super fast.

The next day went to ride it and it was running rough rich. I can actually make the bike stall just by revving it under 2500 rpm. So I thought maybe the PC3 lost its map or went bad. Re-installed my dyno'ed map with no change. Installed a stock map and the bike ran great. Not nearly the beast it was though. So I took the power commander out and have been running the bike with out it. But its still running rich.

I live at about sea level and ride anywhere between here and 7000ft elevation.

Yesterday after our ride Jon told me he could smell how rich my bike was running.
With a full exhaust system and aftermarket air cleaner and no PC3 this bike should be running LEAN What the hell?

What can cause this?

Thank you

How different are the two maps?
Are all four headers running at similar temps?
No MIL flashing on the dash?
The amount of fuel fed to the engine is determined by the amount of air the engine is drawing through, increase the air flow and the fuel flow will also increase - that's how carbs/FI work.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #3 of 15 Old 10-29-2012, 5:23 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Other than FPR what causes a 954 to run rich?

Specifically how different are they? I don't know that. I know that one map is a custom dyno tune vs not having the PC plugged in at all.

I haven't checked temps on the pipes, I can do that.
No lights flashing at all.

Is there a MAS air flow sensor like on a car that reads air then meters ou the fuel? If so maybe its reading incorrectly?
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post #4 of 15 Old 10-29-2012, 5:31 PM
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Re: Other than FPR what causes a 954 to run rich?

Ditch the K&N....try running the stock air filter and see what happens.

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post #5 of 15 Old 10-29-2012, 5:45 PM
 
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Re: Other than FPR what causes a 954 to run rich?

There is a map sensor...If it is bad or has a bad connection you should get 1 blink on you mil light! You could try swapping it out for a know good one,as Red Rider suggest ditch the K&N but I'd go with a BMC air filter.
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post #6 of 15 Old 10-29-2012, 5:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Other than FPR what causes a 954 to run rich?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1ccwit View Post
There is a map sensor...If it is bad or has a bad connection you should get 1 blink on you mil light! You could try swapping it out for a know good one,as Red Rider suggest ditch the K&N but I'd go with a BMC air filter.
When would the light flash? Maybe I'm not paying attention to it?

I'll swap that filter, but the filter has been in the whole time so I can't imagine that its the cause or contributing factor, unless I'm missing something?
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post #7 of 15 Old 10-29-2012, 6:52 PM
 
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Re: Other than FPR what causes a 954 to run rich?

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Originally Posted by BLouder View Post
When would the light flash? Maybe I'm not paying attention to it?

I'll swap that filter, but the filter has been in the whole time so I can't imagine that its the cause or contributing factor, unless I'm missing something?
Light will blink when key is turned on & continue to blink when eng. is running. As posted a K&N produces less HP. on a dyno.
BMC filter produces the most HP.
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post #8 of 15 Old 10-30-2012, 9:40 AM
 
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Re: Other than FPR what causes a 954 to run rich?

The oils in the K&N filters have been known to cause havoc with map sensors.

While the filter may have been in for a long while, did you recently clean and re oil it?
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post #9 of 15 Old 10-30-2012, 10:29 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Other than FPR what causes a 954 to run rich?

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Originally Posted by Stick View Post
The oils in the K&N filters have been known to cause havoc with map sensors.

While the filter may have been in for a long while, did you recently clean and re oil it?
No I haven't.
I did have the front end of the bike torn down doing the suspension.
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post #10 of 15 Old 02-15-2014, 6:47 AM
 
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Re: Other than FPR what causes a 954 to run rich?

Okay, I have some idle problem with my 954 and itīs running really rough/hesitate when idle.
It also "cough" sometime when idle, just like this VTR 1000F (video at the bottom).

Itīs winter now so bike has sit about 3 months and today went to start it and it idle badly than before.
It idles now 1900rpm and if I try to turn it down about 1500rpm, then motor start to clunk a little and it hestitate more and more. I mean it idle really rough and bad.

I have removed servo motor and EGCV system that locate middle of the exhaust, there is now HASS eliminator.

I have changed:
Air filter (stock)
Fuel filter
Spark plugs
Regulator
Check FPR (take vacuum hose off, ignition on)
Removed and cleaned injectors
Cleaned throttle body
Spray some wather in exhaust, every cylinder seems firing good
No power commander
No blinks


Can somebody help me, Iīm starting to be really desperate.

VTR1000f
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post #11 of 15 Old 02-15-2014, 1:36 PM
 
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Re: Other than FPR what causes a 954 to run rich?

I rode with BLouder while he owned the 954, as soon as he installed a new fpr, the bike ran like a top.
They don't always leak from the vacuum line. I've heard others who have replaced the FPR out of not knowing what else to do, and the problem was solved.
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post #12 of 15 Old 02-16-2014, 4:03 AM
 
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Re: Other than FPR what causes a 954 to run rich?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jondog9 View Post
I rode with BLouder while he owned the 954, as soon as he installed a new fpr, the bike ran like a top.
They don't always leak from the vacuum line. I've heard others who have replaced the FPR out of not knowing what else to do, and the problem was solved.
I have read many threads where guys have changed FPR and plugs but didin`t fix the problem. And my FPR have never leaked at all, vaccuum hose have been dry every time when I have checked it.


I sync my throttle body and there where some differens and after sync it did seems to idle better. Now it idles "best" in 1200-1300rpm, but there is that dam clunk noise ?
My girilfriend have GPZ 500 and before it did clunk really noise if it idles under 1700rpm. I did sync those carbs and after that it didn`t clunk anymore
and I could drop idle to 1400rpm and it`s running so smooth now.
So I`m thinkin could my clunking noise be caused by rich condition or something similar problem ?

I also notice that after sync it I shut it down. After one hour I started it and it did idle pretty good, then I gave a little throttle and immediately after rpm drops idle start to go worse.


Here is video how this dam bike behave. I didn`t get that cough on the video, so it`s not doing it all the time.
Middle of that video I give a little throttle and keep it on. But as you see rpm start to wobble:
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post #13 of 15 Old 08-08-2014, 2:30 PM
 
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Re: Other than FPR what causes a 954 to run rich?

Quote:
Originally Posted by samba2 View Post
I have read many threads where guys have changed FPR and plugs but didin`t fix the problem. And my FPR have never leaked at all, vaccuum hose have been dry every time when I have checked it.


I sync my throttle body and there where some differens and after sync it did seems to idle better. Now it idles "best" in 1200-1300rpm, but there is that dam clunk noise ?
My girilfriend have GPZ 500 and before it did clunk really noise if it idles under 1700rpm. I did sync those carbs and after that it didn`t clunk anymore
and I could drop idle to 1400rpm and it`s running so smooth now.
So I`m thinkin could my clunking noise be caused by rich condition or something similar problem ?

I also notice that after sync it I shut it down. After one hour I started it and it did idle pretty good, then I gave a little throttle and immediately after rpm drops idle start to go worse.


Here is video how this dam bike behave. I didn`t get that cough on the video, so it`s not doing it all the time.
Middle of that video I give a little throttle and keep it on. But as you see rpm start to wobble:
Kopio videosta My Edited Video - YouTube
Did you ever figure out what the problem was? I'm having the same issue
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post #14 of 15 Old 08-08-2014, 4:41 PM
 
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Re: Other than FPR what causes a 954 to run rich?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jondog9 View Post
I rode with BLouder while he owned the 954, as soon as he installed a new fpr, the bike ran like a top.
They don't always leak from the vacuum line. I've heard others who have replaced the FPR out of not knowing what else to do, and the problem was solved.
I have had symptoms of a bad FPR for a while but no leak regardless of what I do..

When I pull the vacuum line the bike jumps up 100 or 200 rpm and idles MUCH smoother as the vacuum just sucks air.

Would this be a symptom of anything else or is it just time for a new FPR even though it doesn't leak??

Honda CBR 954RR (Leslie)
Suzuki SV650-K2

Last edited by Camper; 08-08-2014 at 7:54 PM.
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post #15 of 15 Old 08-08-2014, 7:13 PM
 
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Re: Other than FPR what causes a 954 to run rich?

Holy crap I get that same "hic up" I call it. It's scary. I also would LOVE to fix it. It hic ups only on a cold start and it only happens once. BUT...If I'm in 1st gear and doing about 5 to 10 mph it'll do it also.
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