929 Swinging Arm Unit Pro Link Conversion 1000RR 2004 - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 31 Old 12-27-2012, 6:51 PM Thread Starter
 
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929 Swinging Arm Unit Pro Link Conversion 1000RR 2004


Hi guys, sorry if this has already been done but I can't find anything on the Internet that indicates it has.
I'm currently trying to fit a 2004 CBR1000RR swinging arm (you know, the lovely Unit Pro Link one) to my 2000 CBR900RR (929). I got the swinging arm complete with shock, linkages and rear brake caliper/mount for a snip from ebay and thought I'd give it a go over the Christmas period.

As you can see, it's pretty similar but (there always is a but) there are some major differences.
Honda are pretty good at evolving their machines, which will hopefully lead to an easier conversion, and you can see this reflected in the 929 - 1000RR swinging arms. It looks like the left hand sides use the same parts and jig for the braced part, dimensionally it's not too far out either. It's slightly narrower at the pivot point and about an inch longer overall. The pivot and wheel spindles on both bikes are all the same diameters.
So, first step is to remove the 929 arm and offer up the 1000RR arm to see if it's anywhere near being possible to swap.

Et voila, looks cute doesn't it.
it isn't a million miles out, but there are 3 main obstacles to overcome.

Obstacle 1 - Pivot Point
If you know anything about the 929 you'll know that the swinging arm pivots on the rear of the engine whereas on the 1000RR it pivots in the usual manner between the frame spars. You can see in the picture above where the new swinger won't go fully into place due to the main pivot tube fouling the engine pivot point.

Obstacle 2 - Different Linkages
The 929 uses triangulated plates and a dogbone fastened underneath the pivot mount to operate the shock as below

the 1000RR uses a triangulated rocking arm with two drag arms fastened under the pivot mount as below

Looks like it might fall into place but if it's not exactly the same fitment as the 929 I'm going to have a bit of jiggery pokery to get the swinger to fit and the bike to sit at the correct attitude.

Obstacle 3 - Shock Top Mount
Last but not least, I may just have shock mount/subframe interfacing issues here but I'm sure an angle grinder can sort out most of that malarky.

Back to obstacle number 1
The bit I like more than most things, chopping and hacking perfectly good kit in a vague hope I can make it fit something else (after some very careful measurements and not forgetting "measure twice, cut once"), see timelapse sequence below





Notice my workbench - a fridge and a tumble dryer. Necessity being the mother of invention.
I've tried to maintain the counter-bores integrity in the main bearing assemblies and as you can see, the bearings have pressed back into their original retained positions, which is what's required to maintain the swinger in a located position
Yes, I've removed a considerable piece of the swinger's structure but it is on the non-drive side and that can be easily filled in when I can find a decent (cheap!) ally welder to do it for me. In my engineering judgement (Eur Ing Ganzee Geezer BEng (Hons) CEng MIET...ahem!) the integrity will not be too badly affected even if it is left as it is (time will probably evolve some stress fracturing at the sharp corners though so it's wise to get the hole plated to give the structure a bit more support and then it will be fit for the duration)

Tomorrows job, weather permitting, will be to offer up the swinger and see if I got my measurements right! If not I'll slink away never to be heard of again, let's hope I got the measurements right and even if I have cocked up hopefully this may inspire someone to do it properly. More pictures will follow regardless!

Last edited by ganzeegeezer; 12-28-2012 at 9:57 AM. Reason: avatar added
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post #2 of 31 Old 12-27-2012, 8:18 PM
 
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Re: 929 Swinging Arm Unit Pro Link Conversion 1000RR 2004

Whether it works or not it's a cool project and kudos for hacking up perfectly good stuff in the name of "WTF not".

As I understand it the RR swingarm is rather heavy, but this is compensated by the amount of weight it allows to be taken off the frame. Can/will you be removing anything off the frame?

I expect you know this but the brake side looks a lot like the 954, I wonder how much design / tooling really was reused.

I'm not an engineer but that amount of material removed would make me nervous.

Lowering links are available cheaply enough on eBay depending how close your mounting is. It looks like your original is off centre and this one is going to collide? Needn't be an issue some of the lowering links are two separate sides and a central sleeve that you could just leave out.
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post #3 of 31 Old 12-28-2012, 5:36 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 929 Swinging Arm Unit Pro Link Conversion 1000RR 2004


I know the 1000RR swinger will be slightly heavier than the 929 but there's not much in it, perhaps a kilo or so. I'm willing to sacrifice weight for the looks!
I will more than likely have to remove the 929 top shock mounts to prevent fouling but no more than that, I'm not after losing weight so I will leave as much of the frame intact as possible. I'd really like to retain all the 929 features so I can go back to original if necessary but I may not be that lucky.

I suspect the drawing board began with the 954 swinger and then evolved using as much tooling as physically possible, even Honda have to penny pinch. Things like the wheel adjusters, rear spindle and pivot bearings look identical.

I am an engineer and it doesn't worry me at all, once plated it will be almost as strong as the original. What you don't see is the swinger assembled to the rear of the engine, once that is done this acts as a spacer between the swinger pivots, the spindle will then pull it all together making a very strong assembly.
The pictures also foreshorten the right hand pivot. It doesn't look too bad from this angle

Yes I've considered different links, plenty of choice on ebay but no dimensions so it would be a bit of a lottery. The post 2008 Fireblade went back to the triangulated plates and dogbone so I've bought some on ebay, they look pretty similar to what's required. I haven't got them yet so can't comment further but it would be the neatest solution.
Besides I always have the option of knocking something up myself.

GG
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post #4 of 31 Old 12-28-2012, 9:51 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 929 Swinging Arm Unit Pro Link Conversion 1000RR 2004


Miserable day, cold and damp so didn't get much done.
Offered up the swinger and it fits a treat, just got to sort out a couple of spacers and the pivot point is sorted.
The rear wheel fits in without too much hassle, using the 1000RR rear caliper seems to do the job nicely but I could do with making a slightly narrower spacer as it is a tight fit. The chain run looks spot on.

Still got a few bits and pieces to work on, ride height will be entirely dependant upon the link arm dimensions but that's not insurmountable and there won't be much suspension travel unless I chop off the 929 shock top mount and modify the undertray.

The shock looks cool but perhaps I should look into changing it out for one that doesn't have the reservoir sticking out the back (it will foul the undertray) and is slightly shorter (that may help with the linkage as the bottom of the shock is in the way of a dogbone setup). I've got a few shocks lying around the garage so will do a bit of investigating but that's for another day.

The linkage looks pretty close.

And it sits very well (albeit without the linkage attached yet).

Last edited by ganzeegeezer; 12-28-2012 at 9:57 AM. Reason: avatar added
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post #5 of 31 Old 12-29-2012, 6:59 AM
 
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Re: 929 Swinging Arm Unit Pro Link Conversion 1000RR 2004

GOOD...
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post #6 of 31 Old 12-29-2012, 12:05 PM
 
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Re: 929 Swinging Arm Unit Pro Link Conversion 1000RR 2004

very nice, good little project there. Wouldnt it have been worth putting the 08 arm on as its much better looking?



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post #7 of 31 Old 12-29-2012, 1:09 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 929 Swinging Arm Unit Pro Link Conversion 1000RR 2004


By '08 arm if you mean the black one then no it would look out of place and is easily scratched or perhaps the revamp with the triangulated plates and dogbone then yes it would have probably been a much easier swap?

Anyway the arm I got came with all the bits required, shock, linkages, spindles, guards and caliper and for the princely sum of 80 it was a steal, my Christmas prezzie to me and beggars can't be choosers.

Right back to business, I've started on the link arms, I've had to cut a bit from the rear engine mount to get the arms to fit (a bit too much really but this is just to prove things, Honda have helpfully designed a sub-frame for the rear engine and dogbone mount so it is easily replaced). You can just about see in the picture below.


The link arms have been cut and shut, reversed and with the bearings still located but now at the rocker arm end (there are now two sets of bearings in each side of the rocker arm where the link arm joins it). Difficult to see and I wasn't in the mood for taking pictures at the time (forgot to take the camera into the garage as I was too enthralled once I got going!)

The bike sits quite well, it will sit slightly higher once the linkages are all tightened and the final link arm mount is sorted (perhaps tomorrow), it will be higher at the rear than the 929 but I can live with that (long legs) and without chopping the 929 top shock mount I have around 4 inches of suspension travel. More than enough for my needs (and I can go back to the 929 setup if need be without replacing the frame!). I will probably need to replace the rear engine mount though as it is hacked (well, angle grindered) to bits but looking from the underside it doesn't look too bad, I'll make the decision once the thing is back together.

Chin chin

GG
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post #8 of 31 Old 12-30-2012, 12:25 AM
 
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Re: 929 Swinging Arm Unit Pro Link Conversion 1000RR 2004

This is pretty cool but I was thinking of doing exactly the reverse of what you are except with a 954 swingarm. I want to get rid of the undertail exhaust and do a side mount and I think the 1000rr swingarm would look a little goofy without the pipe running up the side. How much narrower are the outside of the pivots on the 929 swingarm than the 1000rr? Thanks.
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post #9 of 31 Old 12-30-2012, 7:07 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 929 Swinging Arm Unit Pro Link Conversion 1000RR 2004



Dimensions as below.


The 929 is the one on top, it's slightly wider than the 1000RR.
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post #10 of 31 Old 12-30-2012, 1:09 PM
 
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Re: 929 Swinging Arm Unit Pro Link Conversion 1000RR 2004

they do the 08 in silver also not just black but your right would have cost a fortune with all the other needed parts also and for 80 you did get a bargain. Looks much better than stock really like what youve done



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post #11 of 31 Old 12-30-2012, 1:18 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 929 Swinging Arm Unit Pro Link Conversion 1000RR 2004



Cheers Lambchops.

Had an easy day today, didn't do much, just did a bit of measuring for the lower link arms and knocked up a spacer!

GG
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post #12 of 31 Old 12-31-2012, 9:40 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 929 Swinging Arm Unit Pro Link Conversion 1000RR 2004



Well, the main spacers and bearings have been made and it's come together very nicely.


You can see where I've had to do some judicious grinding to get the link arms to fit!

I had a change of heart with the link arms and have put them back into their original orientation (see previously where I'd doubled up on the bearings at the rocker end). It only took a couple of spacers/bearings to support everything and a bit of grinding to the arms themselves and it produces a decent set up which is free from play.



And the above shows it all nipped up.



And sitting pretty.

Still got a few bits and pieces to sort out but I'm now on the home run. Just got to make up the swinging arm pivot spacers, put the 1000RR brake line on (929 is a bit short seeing as the swinging arm is around an inch longer), see if the chain fits and then knock some bits out of the undertray and rear subframe. As you can see the remote reservoir will foul the undertray.



That's enough for this year. Happy New Year to you all and I'll see you in 2013
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post #13 of 31 Old 01-01-2013, 12:50 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 929 Swinging Arm Unit Pro Link Conversion 1000RR 2004



To tidy up loose ends I've done a diagram of the spacers I had to make up (love that lathe!) to get the link arms and swinging arm pivot to work correctly.



The top three are the link arms spacers and the bottom two are for the swinging arm pivot.

I've done a dry assembly and now stripped and cleaned all the bearings and put it all together with some grease and here is the result.



No detectable play in any of the suspension bearings but there is a very small amount of play in the drive side of the swinging arm pivot (but not enough to fail an MoT), this is the original 1000RR bearing and sleeve so the play was there to begin with and a new bearing and sleeve won't break the bank if needed.

Sits very well. Just some minor odds n sods to sort out now and then I'll be able to give it a test run.



Back at work tomorrow so progress will be noticeably slower from now on.

Last edited by ganzeegeezer; 01-02-2013 at 4:39 PM. Reason: Dimension missing
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post #14 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 6:47 AM
 
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Re: 929 Swinging Arm Unit Pro Link Conversion 1000RR 2004

wow looks great! wish I had access to a lathe to make up my own stuff..

looks like a mod not for the beginner though but the end result is fantastic, I guess it was never going to be easy fitting that arm to the 929 with the direct engine mount arrangement.. What other plans have you got?



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post #15 of 31 Old 01-02-2013, 1:12 PM
 
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Re: 929 Swinging Arm Unit Pro Link Conversion 1000RR 2004

Hmm.

It looks good, but a 954 arm would've looked better without the exhaust up pipe channel. Then consider the hacking you've had to do which would've been avoided with the 954 arm. That bottom mount looks duff for me. And the limited travel by not hacking the top shock mount, which is going to cause a problem if you ever want or need to use the rear seat. Also you've increased the bike's weight. Minor point but true.

Still, an interesting study in something that can be done, and looks nicer than before.
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