Finally dug into the 954 after the crash in 2011 - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
Honda FireBlade Discussion of the Honda CBR 900RR, Honda CBR 929RR, Honda CBR 954RR, and Honda CBR 1000RR Motorcycles.

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post #1 of 90 Old 03-11-2013, 8:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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Finally dug into the 954 after the crash in 2011

As the title says, I crashed during a track day in 2011. Broke my clavicle and punctured a lung. Link here:

https://www.fireblades.org/forums/wre...11-2011-a.html


Today I went out to the garage and made some room. I pulled off the right side fairing and cleaned the dirt off off the engine. Then I pulled the stator cover and found that the engine casing has more damage than I thought. The lower is broken in two places.

Bummer. Not sure what I am going to do with it. The engine is actually a 2003 that I bought off of CL a couple of years ago. My engine was burning a lot of oil so I swapped it after I found the bores were badly scored.

Link here:
https://www.fireblades.org/forums/hon...uff-smoke.html

A) Bore the original 954 to 980 (the one in it is a 2003 and I have a 2002). I don't really want 13:1 compression. Would like flat tops.

B) Try to weld or braze the block.

C) Buy a crashed 954 and transplant the parts to my frame.

D) Part the bike or sell it as a whole and get a different bike.

It's decision time!

Here are the pics.








2002 CBR954RR, 1998 VFR800
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post #2 of 90 Old 03-12-2013, 1:28 AM
 
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Re: Finally dug into the 954 after the crash in 2011

honestly every option you have there is a huge headache imo

A) Bore the original 954 to 980 (the one in it is a 2003 and I have a 2002). I don't really want 13:1 compression. Would like flat tops.
Sounds FUN to do but for the amount you will pay there, i would find a way to transplant a 1000rr engine in the 954 frame... Its not a direct bolt up but anything is possible with modification

B) Try to weld or braze the block.
Welding the block is really risky because your not really solving the problem. Plus you have to inspect for hairline cracks and might have something you least inspect

C) Buy a crashed 954 and transplant the parts to my frame.
Might be the cheapest option. it takes some time to find a decent running engine. so this might be less of a headache if you want to keep your same bike

D) Part the bike or sell it as a whole and get a different bike.
getting a different bike is probably your easiest option but parting out SUCKS. I parted out my f2 and still 3 years later im still trying to get rid of some parts. Parting out is a LONG process and kind of a pain in the ass when you really want to go riding again
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post #3 of 90 Old 03-12-2013, 5:15 AM
 
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Re: Finally dug into the 954 after the crash in 2011

Maybe try and find anothe engine??
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post #4 of 90 Old 03-12-2013, 5:48 AM
 
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Re: Finally dug into the 954 after the crash in 2011

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Originally Posted by nyknick1015 View Post
honestly every option you have there is a huge headache imo

A) i would find a way to transplant a 1000rr engine in the 954 frame... Its not a direct bolt up but anything is possible with modification
some parts.
Ever seen this done or any other motor in 929/954 frame? I haven't and have few guesses why =)

Last edited by mika_u; 03-12-2013 at 6:51 AM.
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post #5 of 90 Old 03-12-2013, 6:51 AM
 
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Re: Finally dug into the 954 after the crash in 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by nyknick1015 View Post
honestly every option you have there is a huge headache imo

A) Bore the original 954 to 980 (the one in it is a 2003 and I have a 2002). I don't really want 13:1 compression. Would like flat tops.
Sounds FUN to do but for the amount you will pay there, i would find a way to transplant a 1000rr engine in the 954 frame... Its not a direct bolt up but anything is possible with modification
You don't think that by the time you made the necessary mods to the 954 frame, and other pieces to make a 1000 engine work that you wouldn't stand back scratch your head and say " why the hell didn't I just buy a few year old 1000rr?"
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post #6 of 90 Old 03-12-2013, 8:49 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Finally dug into the 954 after the crash in 2011

Boring and replating along with all the parts would be about $1800 the last time I checked prices. This would essentially be a new motor. I would definitely seek out a case protector for the left side if I did that. I balked at speeding $200 for one and now I am regretting it.

Putting a 1000rr engine in my frame is not an option for me.

2002 CBR954RR, 1998 VFR800
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post #7 of 90 Old 03-12-2013, 8:54 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Finally dug into the 954 after the crash in 2011

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Maybe try and find anothe engine??
I have been looking and they are pricey. The cheapest I have found so far is $950 and that does not include shipping which would be another $300 or so. This is why I was thinking it would be better to bore the engine. The engine I have in it now was purchased used and it has some issues. I only paid $650 for it and I was able to pick it up which saved the shipping charges.

2002 CBR954RR, 1998 VFR800
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post #8 of 90 Old 03-12-2013, 9:04 AM
 
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Re: Finally dug into the 954 after the crash in 2011

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Originally Posted by Deadsmiley View Post
I have been looking and they are pricey. The cheapest I have found so far is $950 and that does not include shipping which would be another $300 or so. This is why I was thinking it would be better to bore the engine. The engine I have in it now was purchased used and it has some issues. I only paid $650 for it and I was able to pick it up which saved the shipping charges.
Did you read the thread where you answered about the rod and main bearings. There is conversation about the pros and cons of the 980 kit whit high compression pistons whit bladeracer. My opinnion is that you have to do lot more to get everything out the 980 kit and according to bladeracer that won't still gain much hp. Could be lot simpler to use standard size JE pistons whit 12.5:1 compression ratio. I think they can repair the bores if they are only scratched and if they wont have to bore it it should be little cheaper allso. My casing is at Millenium technologies at the moment and if i remember correct the boring to oversize cost about 100$ more there.

Last edited by mika_u; 03-12-2013 at 9:10 AM.
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post #9 of 90 Old 03-12-2013, 9:09 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Finally dug into the 954 after the crash in 2011

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Originally Posted by mika_u View Post
Did you read the thread where you answered about the rod and main bearings. There is conversation about the pros and cons of the 980 kit whit high compression pistons whit bladeracer. My opinnion is that you have to do lot more to get everything out the 980 kit and according to bladeracer that won't still gain much hp. Could be lot simpler to use standard size JE pistons whit 12.5:1 compression ratio. I think they can repair the bores if they are only scratched.
I did not read the entire thread. I will go back and re-read it. If I can get the bores repaired without going to 980, that would be my preferred route. My intent is to repair the engine, not to make it bigger.

Thanks for the heads up.

2002 CBR954RR, 1998 VFR800
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post #10 of 90 Old 03-12-2013, 9:15 AM
 
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Re: Finally dug into the 954 after the crash in 2011

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Originally Posted by Deadsmiley View Post
I did not read the entire thread. I will go back and re-read it. If I can get the bores repaired without going to 980, that would be my preferred route. My intent is to repair the engine, not to make it bigger.

Thanks for the heads up.
You're welcome! The JE:s would allso generate less heat due to the smaller compression then the Wisecos. OEM size Wiseco 13.2:1 and +1mm size Wisecos 13.5:1.
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post #11 of 90 Old 03-12-2013, 11:38 AM
 
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Re: Finally dug into the 954 after the crash in 2011

Wait a minute....you are talking about boring out a motor. Is this a spare you already have, or the busted one in the pics?
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post #12 of 90 Old 03-12-2013, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Finally dug into the 954 after the crash in 2011

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Originally Posted by vfrman View Post
Wait a minute....you are talking about boring out a motor. Is this a spare you already have, or the busted one in the pics?

I have the original motor as a spare. It has scored cylinder walls, but otherwise is in good shape.

2002 CBR954RR, 1998 VFR800
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post #13 of 90 Old 03-12-2013, 4:12 PM
 
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Re: Finally dug into the 954 after the crash in 2011

Ahh.. I see. Carry on!

How badly are they scored? Can it be honed or will it need new sleeves/pistons?
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post #14 of 90 Old 03-12-2013, 4:29 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Finally dug into the 954 after the crash in 2011

The cylinders are deeply scored. The cylinders are aluminum with nikasil plating, which is harder than hammer hell. The only way to hone this stuff correctly is with a diamond hone.

The pistons are shot too.

https://www.fireblades.org/forums/hon...tml#post937138


I have contacted U.S. Chrome about striping and replating.

2002 CBR954RR, 1998 VFR800

Last edited by Deadsmiley; 03-12-2013 at 4:37 PM.
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post #15 of 90 Old 03-12-2013, 5:04 PM
 
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Re: Finally dug into the 954 after the crash in 2011

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Originally Posted by Deadsmiley View Post
The cylinders are deeply scored. The cylinders are aluminum with nikasil plating, which is harder than hammer hell. The only way to hone this stuff correctly is with a diamond hone.

I have contacted U.S. Chrome about striping and replating.
I think the 929/954 and even older 1000RR (04-07) uses alusil cylinders/casings. Honda offers 0.25 mm oversize piston that could be used just by boring and honing. If it were Nikasil it wouldn't be possible.
From 2002 Honda CBR 954 RR Fireblade - Ride Review - Page 2
In what would be a welcome improvement for the purchaser who aims to own the bike for the really long-term is the fact that the bigger pistons slide up and down in new cylinder sleeves pressure formed from sintered aluminium powder. The bonus comes down the track, in later years, these new sleeves can be re-bored, to a maximum of 0.25mm oversize, this is becoming increasingly rare these days. Honda also say the material that makes up these new sleeves provides better wear resistance and heat dissipation, I have no science degree so will simply take their word for it. I guess a lot of racers will immediately be doing that overbore to get them from 954 to 960cc as for them every little bit counts.
Alusil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
If im wrong could somebody correct it! Perhaps Bladeracer?
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