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post #1 of 11 Old 04-07-2013, 7:39 PM Thread Starter
 
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Another 954 Starting Problem

Hello all! OK, here is my dilemma:

I recently puchased an 02 954 from this kid. Bike was beautiful, took it for a test run and all was fine. Driving it back home on the freeway (only going 60) suddenly red light came on the dash and next thing I knew the rear tire locked up, and I was fishtailing all over the freeway.... When I finally got the bike to stop, smoke was billowing from the bike....I threw a rod.

So I guess the kids I got it from did some engine work and did a bad job on a gasket causing all the oil to leak out, causing low oil pressure and eventually throwing the rod and locking the engine. Sigh....

So what I did was rebuild the engine. Ordered new cases, found that #2 piston and rod was totally decimated. So additionally to replacing the piston and rod, I ordered a new crankshaft also. Replaced all gaskets, screws, journals....and other items outlined in the service manual. All seemed to go rather smoothly.

Upon completion of the case assembly, assuring that I set up the timing properly, I installed the engine back into the bike. Double and triple checked all of my coolant and electrical connections. Added coolant, oil, and new gas.

Moment of truth.....hit the start button.....engine cranks over....but never starts. Checked battery....little weak. So pulled battery off of my fiancÚ's R6 and tried again....same result. Pulled plugs and checked spark...all sparked, but was fouled with gas. Cleaned off all plugs and tried again....still no fire...

I pulled the timing cap off and verified that the engine was not seized again....and it was rotating. There was smoke coming out of the crancase breather, timing cap and exhaust....not thick smoke....but whispy trails of light grey smoke that smelled a little of oil. Could be the assembly lube and oil I used to pre lube during assembly...?

So if anyone can chime in with their expertise, I would greatly appreciate it!

Thank you!
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post #2 of 11 Old 04-08-2013, 4:35 AM
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Re: Another 954 Starting Problem

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Originally Posted by 808Switchgear View Post
Hello all! OK, here is my dilemma:

I recently puchased an 02 954 from this kid. Bike was beautiful, took it for a test run and all was fine. Driving it back home on the freeway (only going 60) suddenly red light came on the dash and next thing I knew the rear tire locked up, and I was fishtailing all over the freeway.... When I finally got the bike to stop, smoke was billowing from the bike....I threw a rod.

So I guess the kids I got it from did some engine work and did a bad job on a gasket causing all the oil to leak out, causing low oil pressure and eventually throwing the rod and locking the engine. Sigh....

So what I did was rebuild the engine. Ordered new cases, found that #2 piston and rod was totally decimated. So additionally to replacing the piston and rod, I ordered a new crankshaft also. Replaced all gaskets, screws, journals....and other items outlined in the service manual. All seemed to go rather smoothly.

Upon completion of the case assembly, assuring that I set up the timing properly, I installed the engine back into the bike. Double and triple checked all of my coolant and electrical connections. Added coolant, oil, and new gas.

Moment of truth.....hit the start button.....engine cranks over....but never starts. Checked battery....little weak. So pulled battery off of my fiancÚ's R6 and tried again....same result. Pulled plugs and checked spark...all sparked, but was fouled with gas. Cleaned off all plugs and tried again....still no fire...

I pulled the timing cap off and verified that the engine was not seized again....and it was rotating. There was smoke coming out of the crancase breather, timing cap and exhaust....not thick smoke....but whispy trails of light grey smoke that smelled a little of oil. Could be the assembly lube and oil I used to pre lube during assembly...?

So if anyone can chime in with their expertise, I would greatly appreciate it!

Thank you!

If it failed due to lack of oil I would've replaced all four rods. The one that let go was just the weaker of the four, the other three may have been just about to let go as well. By "new" cases and crank do you mean new or secondhand?
New rings I assume?
I recommend using a car battery when starting a freshly built four as the engine can be quite tight.
Were the cam journals okay?
You checked valve clearances and the valves aren't damaged?
Does the engine have compression?
Is the vacuum hose to the fuel pressure regulator dry?

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #3 of 11 Old 04-09-2013, 8:16 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Another 954 Starting Problem

Thank you for your response Bladeracer.

All four rods were replaced, four came with the crankshaft that I got from ebay. I ordered new journals, based on engine case codes, and crank codes.

I also ordered new rings for just the piston that broke....broke at the wrist pin. Had to replace both upper and lower halves of the engine case sine the rod went through both.

Let me check on the fuel, and I will test the fpr, I did not think to do so since there was fuel present in the cylinder, fouling the plugs. Possibly too much fuel?

I also jumped the bike with our car and no dice. I pulled the plug #1 and saw spark....but was orange instead of typical blue.

So this is what I will do....order new plugs, check ignition coils, check cylinder compression and check fuel system.

Thank you for your help! If there are anything else that comes to mind, I would greatly appreciated the help!

Cheers
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post #4 of 11 Old 04-09-2013, 8:20 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Another 954 Starting Problem

And the cases were second hand...from ebay, but looked to be in very good order.

I really wish I could afford new cases...but really on a budget

The crank was also second had, but tried to test runout based on the service manual procedures....seemed within tolerance.

Again, I really appreciate the help!

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post #5 of 11 Old 04-09-2013, 11:52 AM
 
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Re: Another 954 Starting Problem

Have you got all the sparkplug leads on the right plugs? Can you hear the fuel pump when you turn the ign on before you press the starter? Take plugs out and put finger over the hole to feel if its got reasonable compression.

And a first start on a new engine often takes a bit of cranking anyway
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post #6 of 11 Old 04-09-2013, 1:13 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Another 954 Starting Problem

Thanks for the tips....will check, pretty sure I got it installed corectly.
The fuel pump does engage when the kill switch is closed.
I will go through all the wiring again, following the schematic and double check....who I knows.....wont be the first....or last time I made a mistake

Thank you again for the replies!
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post #7 of 11 Old 04-09-2013, 1:54 PM
 
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Re: Another 954 Starting Problem

Another thing I usually try when I can't figure it out is a little blast of engine start spray in the intake. Then if it starts and runs for a few seconds you know it must be a fueling problem. And if it doesn't you can look elsewhere.
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post #8 of 11 Old 04-09-2013, 5:52 PM
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Re: Another 954 Starting Problem

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Originally Posted by slopster View Post
Another thing I usually try when I can't figure it out is a little blast of engine start spray in the intake. Then if it starts and runs for a few seconds you know it must be a fueling problem. And if it doesn't you can look elsewhere.

Yep, starter fluid is an awesome diagnostic tool :-)

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #9 of 11 Old 04-11-2013, 5:51 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Another 954 Starting Problem

Tried starter fluid .... no go, bt really seemed like it wanted to? Maybe wishful thinking....

I know my battery is weak so I tried it jumped to our car. Now the voltage from our car's battery was a little low, 12.3 V, so going against recommend advice I have seen posted here on the forums, I had the car running when I tried starting my bike. Vdc coming from the car was 14.1....so I chanced it to try and rule out a bad battery condition.

So my thoughts....since bike would not start with good voltage, and fuel (starter fluid), i am leaning toward the ignition system. Following the ignition system diagnosis section in the service manual, all the tests seemed to be going good.....until i did the ignition pulse generator test. I was looking for a minimum of 0.7 Volts, but was not getting anything when attempting to start the engine. Tested at the yellow wire to ground at the ECU and at the connection, (red 2p plug).

Now I am only using a cheap DMM so that could be the issue since a peak voltage adapter was required per the service manual... will have to wait to get my meter from work (Fluke 87 which has a min/max feature) to be sure if the crank pickup coil is bad. But since the spark produced by my current plugs were yellowish and not the proverbial fat blue spark, I will change my plugs first.

Well, we will see what happens, going out of town for a week so I have some time to do more research and forum scouring.

Thank you to all who chimed in, and I am most appreciative for any future input!

Cheers!
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post #10 of 11 Old 04-11-2013, 5:57 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Another 954 Starting Problem

Oh and I will be doing a compression test....have to pick a test set up.

When I completed the engine assembly, I cranked it by hand and heard the hissing and felt the resistance of compression, but I admit I was lazy and left things up to assumption... bad move on my part

I did try to feel for any pressue at the spark plug holes and felt some....but was it enough?

Lessoned learned here on my part and kicking myself in the ass right now for not doing a proper job...
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post #11 of 11 Old 04-11-2013, 6:11 AM
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Re: Another 954 Starting Problem

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Originally Posted by 808Switchgear View Post
So my thoughts....since bike would not start with good voltage, and fuel (starter fluid), i am leaning toward the ignition system.

If the engine is getting too much fuel then starter fluid won't make any difference.
That's why it's helpful to disconnect the pump to ensure the engine is only getting the starter fluid.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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