954 Motor upgrade question - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
Honda FireBlade Discussion of the Honda CBR 900RR, Honda CBR 929RR, Honda CBR 954RR, and Honda CBR 1000RR Motorcycles.

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post #1 of 13 Old 05-21-2013, 1:03 AM Thread Starter
 
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954 Motor upgrade question

Ive got a 2003 CBR954 that I am using at track days and racing, it's a track only bike. A few weeks ago, I had an issue with 4th gear not engaging and jumping out of gear. After a lot of research I deteremined the gear dogs to be the problem.

So I have pulled the motor, and have broken the cases and sure enough the gear dogs are worn. I am going to have them undercut by a machine shop. So...as I am sitting there looking at this motor that's for the most part ready to be completely torn apart and upgraded.

I am thinking about putting in some midly higher compression pistions and bigger cams. I have seen a few threads where it was mentioned that the 1000 cams might fit in the 954. Has anyone been able to confirm this?

I don't have a massive budget and really don't want to go so radical that reliabiliery becomes a major issue. Anyone have any advice on which direction I should go. I have a full exhaust and have done all the free mods.

Yorke
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post #2 of 13 Old 05-21-2013, 5:13 PM
 
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Re: 954 Motor upgrade question

They should fit but 04-05 1000RR cams are milder then 954 cams and have only 0.1mm-0.2mm more lift. Don't now what does the 06-07 1000RR intake cam look but it's different to the 04-05 1000RR. How does your cylinders look?
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post #3 of 13 Old 05-21-2013, 10:28 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 954 Motor upgrade question

I have not got that far yet, I pulled the transmisson out yesterday and have been on the fence on if I want to go ahead and pull the entire motor apart. Aside from the gear issues, the bike has run good.

I just figured since it was apart and these are upgrades intended to make over the winter break. I might as well go ahead and do it while the motor is apart.

I sounds like 1000rr cams are not the route to go. I had hoped to save some money. Right now the list looks like this.

1. Cylinder deglazing, no boring.
2. New Pistons, 12.5-1? Or would 13.2-1 be better? Too Radical?
3. Port and Polish Head
4. New Cams, Just not sure what spec
5. Degree cams?
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post #4 of 13 Old 05-22-2013, 4:26 PM
 
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Re: 954 Motor upgrade question

You should check the cylinders. Seems very likely that they have scoring/scratches in them. Every topic i have seen made from the 954 that has engine splitted has them.

You would say go whit the 12.5:1 compression JE pistons. Less compression, less heat. Get the head ported by an professional and add for an example webcams cams. Or if you can find some reliable shop that grinds cams you could get little cheaper whit the cams. My cams where grinded here in Finland and i haven't gotten all the parts yet to get my engine together so i don't have any clue how will they work.

The regrinds at webcams are lot cheaper then hardwelded cams so if you want intake cam that has more lift you could probably use 06-07 1000RR intake cam regrinded. I did a little compare at webcams site. But i can't say would it need stiffer valve springs at intake side.
Or you could just send your cams the webcams to get them regrinded. The first grind is "bolt-on".
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post #5 of 13 Old 05-23-2013, 10:30 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 954 Motor upgrade question

Your suggestions are exactly what I have been thinking, 12.5-1 seems like a nice upgrade without losing reliability.

So, your suggesting just getting the intake cam reground? Or going with the Webcams 1st selection, which is a regrind. I've noticed that stiffer springs are hard to find, any suggestions?
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post #6 of 13 Old 05-23-2013, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 954 Motor upgrade question

Ya after looking at the website, I see what your saying, it appears the 06-07 cams can be reground.
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post #7 of 13 Old 05-23-2013, 12:32 PM
 
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Re: 954 Motor upgrade question

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Originally Posted by Yorke View Post
Ya after looking at the website, I see what your saying, it appears the 06-07 cams can be reground.
I suggested using regrinded 06-07 1000RR intake cam and regrinded 954RR exhaust cam. Exhaust cam of a 04-07 1000RR has lot less duration then 954RR cam even regrounded. I would say any of the 1000RR intake profiles would work but probably they could tell at the webcams which profile would suit the 954 best. I'm using Kibblewhite springs for the 900RR but the head isn't finished yet so i can't no guarantee they will work/fit. Whit these springs there is lot of room to shim them tighter and whit right equipment and software the spring need of cams can be calculated.
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post #8 of 13 Old 05-23-2013, 6:23 PM
 
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Re: 954 Motor upgrade question

Actually i checked the webcams website. The last intake grind for the 06-07 1000RR seems to same as the second one to 954RR. Just that on the 954RR cam it's a hardweld so it's more expensive. They offer the grind number 540 to bouth bikes. The even offer it as only regrind on the 08-11 1000RR intake cam.
valve lift 9.75 mm and duration at 0.050" or 1.27 mm lift 248 degrees.
I would go whit that.
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post #9 of 13 Old 05-23-2013, 11:48 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 954 Motor upgrade question

Do the 08-11 cams fit the 954? The second (06-07) grind has lower lift and more duration on the exh. side.

Do the 06-07 valve springs work in the 954?
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post #10 of 13 Old 05-24-2013, 5:34 AM
 
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Re: 954 Motor upgrade question

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Originally Posted by Yorke View Post
Do the 08-11 cams fit the 954? The second (06-07) grind has lower lift and more duration on the exh. side.

Do the 06-07 valve springs work in the 954?
Not whitout modification. Probably not even then. Just the grind seems to be same. The second sets (06-07 1000RR) exhaust grind has still less duration then 954 oem exhaust cam.

The valve springs of a 1000RR could fit the 954RR but 1000RR has 0.5 mm smaller valve stem and little shorter valves (lighter) so the springs aren't necassery stiffer.

I would buy used 1000RR (06-07) intake cam and send it whit the 954RR exhaust cam for re-grinding and use grind 540 at the intake side and 116 at the exhaust side. kibblewhite valve springs and if you have money i would allso buy titanium retainers from kibblewhite and let a professional measure the spring need of the cams and shim the valve springs.
Racing shops who do porting allso normally can shim the springs if they have the necassery equipment.
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post #11 of 13 Old 05-24-2013, 9:46 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 954 Motor upgrade question

How much did you pay for you Kibblewhite springs and parts? I assume you called and asked them if they made CBR954 springs? When will your motor be put together?

I appreciate the help, I am going to call Webcams this coming week and look into exactly what you suggested.
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post #12 of 13 Old 05-24-2013, 10:11 AM
 
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Re: 954 Motor upgrade question

Probably couple of months. I haven't found any valve springs that are made for the 954. HRC made them years ago but probably they are impossible to get. I didn't call them because i live in Finland.

This is what i'm using: They are for the older 900RR.
Item # 30-6068, High Performance Spring Only Kits for Honda® CBR? 900 RR 1993-1999 On Kibblewhite Precision Machining

The Ti-retainers should allso work because 900RR and 929/954 use same oem retainer. I use oem retainers.
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post #13 of 13 Old 05-24-2013, 5:19 PM
 
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Re: 954 Motor upgrade question

Or you could go whit the first option that webcam has for the 954RR. It doesn't need stiffer valve springs if i remember correct. You should check it. Bouth have same exhaust cam so only the intake needs stiffer springs anyways if you use the grind number 540 and keep the oem rev-limiter.
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