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post #1 of 14 Old 07-09-2013, 2:37 PM Thread Starter
 
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mysterious issue PLEASE READ, catastrophic story inside

Greetings fam! new the board, and my first post isn't a happy one!


what happened: bought a cbr929 with 48,000 miles, came with a charging system issue. turns out, the stator was disconnected by the previous owner (who is a ****ing goober to say the least). tested the r/r, stator etc with my volt meter, reconnected the goods and the bike is charging. runs like a champ!

but then, a random trip to the grocery store. i roll off the curb (a short curb, 4 inches or so), turn the bike on, and upon hitting the starter, i hear a POP (more of a poof, the sound of compressed air?)

with the poof, smoke was pouring out of the airbox, and smoke filled the oil level window. turned the bike off IMMEDIATELY, only to notice that the bike was DUMPING oil. the majority of the oil came out in under 5 minutes, and i noticed that the coolant reservoir was empty.


the oil that came out didnt look super milky/light. it dumped into the belly pan, so its hard to say if they mixed before coming out, but i could definitely smell the antifreeze in the oil on the floor.

the fairings are coming off today, but in the mean time, does anyone have experience with something similar? what happened?
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post #2 of 14 Old 07-09-2013, 2:41 PM
 
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Re: mysterious issue PLEASE READ, catastrophic story inside

Where did the oil come from? Did you clip the oil drain plug on the sump as you went down the curb? Or if the coolant exited too, then maybe somehow the water pump housing?
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post #3 of 14 Old 07-09-2013, 2:48 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: mysterious issue PLEASE READ, catastrophic story inside

when everything was happening, i couldnt see EXACTLY where the oil was coming from, but i did notice that the shift lever gasket was awfully wet, it looked like at least some of the oil was coming from there.

as for clipping the drain plug, wouldnt the exhaust headers have some sort of damage as well? where on the bike is the water pump located/what would you suggest i test for, to see if its broken?
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post #4 of 14 Old 07-09-2013, 3:14 PM
 
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Re: mysterious issue PLEASE READ, catastrophic story inside

It would need to be very unlikely and a bigger drop than you thought to have clipped the drain plug, and the water pump should also be pretty hard to hit. Just wondering why the coolant would be empty or if it could be unrelated.

Shift seals can and do fail, usually it's just a new seal but at worst a new bearing behind it.

Oil leaks are deceptive though, they collect and pool in very odd places.

Find some more info, and come back to us. Speculation is pretty pointless at this stage.
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post #5 of 14 Old 07-09-2013, 4:52 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: mysterious issue PLEASE READ, catastrophic story inside

Update,


The lower fsirings are removed, finding that there is in fact coolant in the res. Its exactly
at the lower of the two lines, but its there.

I'm.in the process of cleaning everything to see if I can trace where the oil is weeping from. Should I take pictures of anything specific?

Interesting things to note: the bolt/plug for the oil drainage looks way newer than the rest of the metal bits, could this be the suspect? There is also much moisture around the seal on the shifter. Any ideas/recommendations?
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post #6 of 14 Old 07-09-2013, 7:16 PM
 
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Re: mysterious issue PLEASE READ, catastrophic story inside

As I recall, there seems to be a problem with the stator windings igniting engine oil / fuel blow-by on these. I never believed that to be true, but there are many postings of the cam box gaskets blowing out and dumping oil everywhere. This is the first link I've found, there is a much more detailed one somewhere that i recall having some heated discussions within.
https://www.fireblades.org/forums/hon...r+igniting+oil
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post #7 of 14 Old 07-10-2013, 5:10 AM
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Re: mysterious issue PLEASE READ, catastrophic story inside

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Originally Posted by cbr929supreme View Post
Greetings fam! new the board, and my first post isn't a happy one!


what happened: bought a cbr929 with 48,000 miles, came with a charging system issue. turns out, the stator was disconnected by the previous owner (who is a ****ing goober to say the least). tested the r/r, stator etc with my volt meter, reconnected the goods and the bike is charging. runs like a champ!

but then, a random trip to the grocery store. i roll off the curb (a short curb, 4 inches or so), turn the bike on, and upon hitting the starter, i hear a POP (more of a poof, the sound of compressed air?)

with the poof, smoke was pouring out of the airbox, and smoke filled the oil level window. turned the bike off IMMEDIATELY, only to notice that the bike was DUMPING oil. the majority of the oil came out in under 5 minutes, and i noticed that the coolant reservoir was empty.


the oil that came out didnt look super milky/light. it dumped into the belly pan, so its hard to say if they mixed before coming out, but i could definitely smell the antifreeze in the oil on the floor.

the fairings are coming off today, but in the mean time, does anyone have experience with something similar? what happened?

Fuel pressure regulator maybe has failed and filled the engine with fuel?

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #8 of 14 Old 07-10-2013, 5:19 AM
 
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Re: mysterious issue PLEASE READ, catastrophic story inside

The pop and smoke sounds like a backfire, I've had carbed bikews do that when the carbs neede attention. Couldn't guess about the oil though if you didn't hit and crack something. Let us know what you find.
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post #9 of 14 Old 07-10-2013, 7:41 AM
 
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Re: mysterious issue PLEASE READ, catastrophic story inside

I know it sounds strange, but a faulty stator may cause such blow out - and maybe that is why the previous owner had disconnected the stator.

It happens that the valve cover gasket is suddenly blown out by a sudden pressure increase inside the valve cover. According to Honda this may be caused by a failing stator igniting gasses in the cranc case ...

The above text is an extract from this Alternator Totorial Article. Suggest you read that particular section in detail, it might be the answer to your problem.

Regards ... Fred
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post #10 of 14 Old 07-10-2013, 8:20 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: mysterious issue PLEASE READ, catastrophic story inside

when i bought the bike, i tested the stator for continuity; can it still be faulty even though it passes such a test?
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post #11 of 14 Old 07-11-2013, 3:27 AM
 
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Re: mysterious issue PLEASE READ, catastrophic story inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbr929supreme View Post
when i bought the bike, i tested the stator for continuity; can it still be faulty even though it passes such a test?
Yes indeed - I expect this to be a very common way for the stator to fail. Due to high temperatures and vibrations the insulation layer between windings is graduately broken down, eventually causing intermittent stator failures during operation. When you then test stator continuity at still stand all looks well because the windings are just not shorted when you test.

My best advice is to keep the rubber o-rings at the oil filler plug and the oil level stick in good shape, so the engine can not suck fresh air - with oxygene - into the cranck case.

:-) ... Freddy
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post #12 of 14 Old 07-11-2013, 1:03 PM
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Re: mysterious issue PLEASE READ, catastrophic story inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbr929supreme View Post
Update,


The lower fsirings are removed, finding that there is in fact coolant in the res. Its exactly
at the lower of the two lines, but its there.

I'm.in the process of cleaning everything to see if I can trace where the oil is weeping from. Should I take pictures of anything specific?

Interesting things to note: the bolt/plug for the oil drainage looks way newer than the rest of the metal bits, could this be the suspect? There is also much moisture around the seal on the shifter. Any ideas/recommendations?
Okay, with this update and everything else I have read so far, I would say that you actually do have a problem with the stator winding. I don't think you have a problem with the coolant. However, be ready to find a seal related to the coolant circuit starting to leak. It is a good sign that the oil did not show up as milky. I want to say that you may need to go through that engine and re do all the accessible gaskets and seals, that will be up to you and your wallet. You need to get a new winding as for the indicated problem.

If you don't stand for something, then you'll fall for anything. The proverbial "trick", is not to follow anyone elses idea of reality. Be an individual. The future belongs to those who prepare for it.

Last edited by sidmarklong; 07-11-2013 at 3:56 PM.
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post #13 of 14 Old 07-11-2013, 1:08 PM
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Re: mysterious issue PLEASE READ, catastrophic story inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbr929supreme View Post
The lower fsirings are removed, finding that there is in fact coolant in the res. Its exactly
at the lower of the two lines, but its there.

The reservoir is irrelevant, to check for oil in the cooling system I would drain the coolant or pull one of the hoses off the pump.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #14 of 14 Old 07-12-2013, 7:24 AM
 
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Re: mysterious issue PLEASE READ, catastrophic story inside

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireBladerDk View Post
...

My best advice is to keep the rubber o-rings at the oil filler plug and the oil level stick in good shape, so the engine can not suck fresh air - with oxygene - into the cranck case.

:-) ... Freddy
I forgot to also suggest that you should replace the stator with a new one and have the valve cover gasket remounted properly.

Remounting the valver cover gasket is probably not a small job (at least not on my CBR1000RR08) and not replacing the relatively cheap stator at the same time even if it seems to work ok is simply too risky considering the history of the bike.

Cheers ... Fred

Last edited by FireBladerDk; 07-12-2013 at 7:30 AM.
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