96 MC22 CBR250RR Babyblade - Spark Plug broke during service - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 34 Old 08-20-2013, 8:12 PM Thread Starter
 
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96 MC22 CBR250RR Babyblade - Spark Plug broke during service

Hi guys, I was doing a service and replacing the spark plugs. Chips of porcelain broke off and may have got down into the cylinder. Am I royally screwed?

Do I need to get a video inspection camera/borescope down the plug holes to see what kind of damage is done? Is there any danger of getting porcelain down into the cylinder?

Sorry if this isn't the appropriate forum, just need some help bad.
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post #2 of 34 Old 08-20-2013, 10:40 PM
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Re: 96 MC22 CBR250RR Babyblade - Spark Plug broke during service

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Originally Posted by Rrotz View Post
Hi guys, I was doing a service and replacing the spark plugs. Chips of porcelain broke off and may have got down into the cylinder. Am I royally screwed?

Do I need to get a video inspection camera/borescope down the plug holes to see what kind of damage is done? Is there any danger of getting porcelain down into the cylinder?

Sorry if this isn't the appropriate forum, just need some help bad.

Do you mean that the spark plug was fractured inside while the engine was running?
Or did you somehow break a plug after you'd removed it and dropped some pieces into the engine?
Exactly how big are the pieces you're talking about?

Try coating a piece of wire with some grease and wiggle it around in the combustion chamber to see if you can bring anything out. Then try turning the engine until the intake valve is closed and the exhaust is open, then put an air hose down the plug hole and try blowing the crap out the exhaust port.
You can try a borescope but the 250RR engine is tiny so I'd be very impressed if you managed to see into the chamber.
That's about all I can think of trying.
Personally, I would then crank the engine over with that spark plug removed just to give it a chance to spit any remaining debris out, then put the plug in and run the engine at the slight risk of damaging a valve before I pulled the head off just for some small pieces of ceramic. It's very likely they'll just get blown out the exhaust port.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #3 of 34 Old 08-21-2013, 12:55 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 96 MC22 CBR250RR Babyblade - Spark Plug broke during service

Thanks for the reply and here's a pic of the plug. It must have fractured when I put them back in after inspection. Possibly when I put the lead back in it bent the top connecting part in the lead.

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post #4 of 34 Old 08-21-2013, 6:55 PM
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Re: 96 MC22 CBR250RR Babyblade - Spark Plug broke during service

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Thanks for the reply and here's a pic of the plug. It must have fractured when I put them back in after inspection. Possibly when I put the lead back in it bent the top connecting part in the lead.


That plug has had a _lot_ of force put into it.
I would've expected the plug cap to come apart before it could bend the electrode.
Are you sure the missing piece dropped into the cylinder?

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #5 of 34 Old 08-21-2013, 8:23 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 96 MC22 CBR250RR Babyblade - Spark Plug broke during service

No way of knowing for sure unless I can borescope it. I did try a chopstick with tape on the end and ran it around the hole and got some fragments stuck to it but not big chunks like the plug is missing. The only thing I noticed was after putting the plug back in after inspection and cleaning, the lead was difficult to put back in and didn't seat properly.

Should I just drop the new plugs in and give it a go? I've stopped doing anything that could damage the engine further. Chunks that big wouldn't be able to make into the cylinder would it?
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post #6 of 34 Old 08-21-2013, 8:29 PM
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Re: 96 MC22 CBR250RR Babyblade - Spark Plug broke during service

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No way of knowing for sure unless I can borescope it. I did try a chopstick with tape on the end and ran it around the hole and got some fragments stuck to it but not big chunks like the plug is missing. The only thing I noticed was after putting the plug back in after inspection and cleaning, the lead was difficult to put back in and didn't seat properly.

Should I just drop the new plugs in and give it a go? I've stopped doing anything that could damage the engine further. Chunks that big wouldn't be able to make into the cylinder would it?

Yes, the pieces could fall into the cylinder when the plug was removed. Always squirt compressed air down around the plugs before removing them to spit out any sand and debris that could fall into the cylinder.
It's a waste of time pulling plugs out just to put them back in - except when taking plug readings. When you pull them out put new ones in - and grease the threads first.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #7 of 34 Old 08-22-2013, 4:29 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 96 MC22 CBR250RR Babyblade - Spark Plug broke during service

Next recommended course of action? Invest in one of those video borescopes to inspect the chamber and cylinder or just take the bloody thing into the shop?
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post #8 of 34 Old 08-22-2013, 4:30 AM
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Re: 96 MC22 CBR250RR Babyblade - Spark Plug broke during service

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Next recommended course of action? Invest in one of those video borescopes to inspect the chamber and cylinder or just take the bloody thing into the shop?

You already tried the things I offered in my first post?

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #9 of 34 Old 08-22-2013, 2:05 PM
 
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Re: 96 MC22 CBR250RR Babyblade - Spark Plug broke during service

Rig a long, flexible (hard plastic), decent diameter straw to the end of your vacuum cleaner hose, secured with sturdy and sticky tape. Coat the straw in grease or some other stick substance that will not injure the cylinder walls (unlikely a plastic straw will hurt), and turn on the suction. You can then swirl it around in the cylinder and suck anything out. I had an electrode tip break off in my camaro (the metal bent tip) and this is how I got it out. Make sure to fully empty out your vacuum's dust bin so you can see if you get anything!

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post #10 of 34 Old 08-22-2013, 2:10 PM
 
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Re: 96 MC22 CBR250RR Babyblade - Spark Plug broke during service

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Fully flexible top to bottom, large diameter (as long as it fits down the bore)

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post #11 of 34 Old 08-24-2013, 10:02 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 96 MC22 CBR250RR Babyblade - Spark Plug broke during service

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Originally Posted by bladeracer View Post
You already tried the things I offered in my first post?
Try coating a piece of wire with some grease and wiggle it around in the combustion chamber to see if you can bring anything out. I tried a chopstick with double sided electrical tape and got some debris, bot not porcelain.

Then try turning the engine until the intake valve is closed and the exhaust is open, then put an air hose down the plug hole and try blowing the crap out the exhaust port. Sorry, I really am a novice here. What do you mean by turn the engine and by what means?

You can try a borescope but the 250RR engine is tiny so I'd be very impressed if you managed to see into the chamber.
That's about all I can think of trying. There are borescopes on ebay with a 10mm head with LED light, is that big enough?

Personally, I would then crank the engine over with that spark plug removed just to give it a chance to spit any remaining debris out, then put the plug in and run the engine at the slight risk of damaging a valve before I pulled the head off just for some small pieces of ceramic. It's very likely they'll just get blown out the exhaust port. This scares me but I'll give it a go! This might give me a reason to rebuild the engine because it has been burning oil more then normal.
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post #12 of 34 Old 08-24-2013, 10:09 AM
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Re: 96 MC22 CBR250RR Babyblade - Spark Plug broke during service

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Originally Posted by Rrotz View Post
Try coating a piece of wire with some grease and wiggle it around in the combustion chamber to see if you can bring anything out. I tried a chopstick with double sided electrical tape and got some debris, bot not porcelain.

Then try turning the engine until the intake valve is closed and the exhaust is open, then put an air hose down the plug hole and try blowing the crap out the exhaust port. Sorry, I really am a novice here. What do you mean by turn the engine and by what means?

You can try a borescope but the 250RR engine is tiny so I'd be very impressed if you managed to see into the chamber.
That's about all I can think of trying. There are borescopes on ebay with a 10mm head with LED light, is that big enough?

Personally, I would then crank the engine over with that spark plug removed just to give it a chance to spit any remaining debris out, then put the plug in and run the engine at the slight risk of damaging a valve before I pulled the head off just for some small pieces of ceramic. It's very likely they'll just get blown out the exhaust port. This scares me but I'll give it a go! This might give me a reason to rebuild the engine because it has been burning oil more then normal.

From your description though it sounds like you only scraped around in the spark plug well without going into the cylinder? You need to use wire so you can get all around the combustion chamber.
Turn the engine by hand. Pull the plugs, put it in gear and turn the rear wheel.
No, you won't fit a 10mm borescopre through an M10-threaded hole - 8mm would be tight.
Price up parts and availability before considering a rebuild - it might be cheaper to find a replacement engine from a wrecker.
Do wet and dry compression tests to determine if the rings or valves are causing the oil usage.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #13 of 34 Old 08-29-2013, 2:17 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 96 MC22 CBR250RR Babyblade - Spark Plug broke during service

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Originally Posted by bladeracer View Post
From your description though it sounds like you only scraped around in the spark plug well without going into the cylinder? You need to use wire so you can get all around the combustion chamber.
Turn the engine by hand. Pull the plugs, put it in gear and turn the rear wheel.
No, you won't fit a 10mm borescopre through an M10-threaded hole - 8mm would be tight.
Price up parts and availability before considering a rebuild - it might be cheaper to find a replacement engine from a wrecker.
Do wet and dry compression tests to determine if the rings or valves are causing the oil usage.
So, I'm ****ed...no choice but to replace the engine? Oh damn!

How about that idea of putting the plugs back in and turn the engine over, maybe with the gas off or tank off? Any chance of blowing the porcelain particles out the exhaust at all?

I might have to try the flexible straw idea. Any ideas on attaching a straw to a vaccum nozzle? Thanks for all the ideas, all.
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post #14 of 34 Old 08-29-2013, 3:02 PM
 
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Re: 96 MC22 CBR250RR Babyblade - Spark Plug broke during service

It has very high probability of blowing those Lil chucks straight outta the exhaust port by the valve. BUT...
There is a chance of it not escapeing quick enough and getting smooshed by the valve! Causeing bent valve And possibly further damage of some kind.
If you can pull the spark plug put that cylinder at tdc of compression stroke let it go down then about 1/3 way back up or so blow air in thru spark plug hole. Ex valve should be open and pieces may fly right on out but maybe not worth a shot.
id personally just run the damned thing lol just porcelain crap shatters and crushes pretty easy so it may blow right out easy enough with no damage. But there is possibility of something worse happening :-/

Good luck

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post #15 of 34 Old 08-29-2013, 8:55 PM
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Re: 96 MC22 CBR250RR Babyblade - Spark Plug broke during service

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Originally Posted by Rrotz View Post
So, I'm ****ed...no choice but to replace the engine? Oh damn!

How about that idea of putting the plugs back in and turn the engine over, maybe with the gas off or tank off? Any chance of blowing the porcelain particles out the exhaust at all?

I might have to try the flexible straw idea. Any ideas on attaching a straw to a vaccum nozzle? Thanks for all the ideas, all.


You're being very dramatic as you haven't yet confirmed that anything even went into the cylinder.
I already gave you some ideas to try...

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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