Electrical - Cluster only works when brakes are on - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 14 Old 08-24-2013, 6:23 PM Thread Starter
 
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Electrical - Cluster only works when brakes are on

This bike has been giving me a load of trouble out of nowhere. it started with an erratic idle. Then one day it wouldnt run without the idle screwed all the way in. I could hear bubbling and PSI release coming from the tank, so I removed it to make sure my breathers were not pinched. I took the battery out and had it tested also. After putting it all back together, My gauges [cluster] was not working and would only light up when I hit the brakes?! I am assuming it is a short somewhere but have not found anything so far. The bike runs at the moment but only with the idle screwed all the way in. I am currently in the process of stripping the bike and visually checking for shorts in the harness. I figured I would do the plugs while I had it stripped.

The last owner wired in tail lights and LEDs. I have removed the LEDS, and everything else he did. I have two wires in the rear harness that I have not identified. A brown one and a green one. Bike seems to run fine without them connected to anything and the lights still work. Otherwise everything appears normal.

Worst case, If this short is in the middle of a cluster somewhere, which part of the harness would affect both the brakes and the cluster If I just chose to replace the entire piece of the harness?


Any Ideas?
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post #2 of 14 Old 08-24-2013, 8:53 PM
 
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Re: Electrical - Cluster only works when brakes are on

What kind of bike is this?
Did you do anything to the loom before the cluster went out?

Sounds like something is wired wrong to me, but electrical issues can sure be little grimlins to find...

/**Serenity**\ 2002 Honda CBR954RR Fireblade

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post #3 of 14 Old 08-24-2013, 9:23 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Electrical - Cluster only works when brakes are on

2006 Honda CBR1000rr. Last thing I did was a highway run. We were doing 150+ for about 25 minutes. Bike has never given me any issues before this and I ride it hard all the time. If it was wired wrong years back it took a while to manifest itself.

I am worried I may have 2 separate issues here. A bad motor and an electrical problem. The idle is still screwed up also. I went through everything today. Checked every wire that had been taped and retaped everything. unplugged each brake, unplugged, everything to try and narrow it down. Im clueless. When I was done, It idled great and was firing on all 4 cylinders. By the time I drove it into the front yard, it wouldn't idle and was dying again, and one of the cylinders was turning on and off. So it would ping and run like crap, then kick on and run fine again for a few seconds then like crap again.
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post #4 of 14 Old 08-24-2013, 9:35 PM
 
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Re: Electrical - Cluster only works when brakes are on

I hope for your sake it isn't what I suspect. Sounds like a bad ECM to me. That is the only thing I can think that would cause multiple issues to manifest simultaneously, more specifically the issues you are describing. It runs your clocks, fuel injection, and just about everything else. It does get a little heat to it as you are running from electrical load and engine heat, so might just be going bad and is only prevalent when it gets warmer.

Bladeracer should be along soon to either back me up or call me a crack-head.. hard to say which on this one =P

/**Serenity**\ 2002 Honda CBR954RR Fireblade

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post #5 of 14 Old 08-24-2013, 9:49 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Electrical - Cluster only works when brakes are on

I could only hope! That would be awesome actually. I dont mind spending a few hundred on a used ECM [or less who knows] than the hundreds its going to cost me to chase down who knows what. I m in school and just do not have time for this.
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post #6 of 14 Old 08-24-2013, 9:53 PM
 
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Re: Electrical - Cluster only works when brakes are on

Good point, at least the ECM would be one self-contained cluster f*ck to replace and end your problems... hadn't thought of it that way.

/**Serenity**\ 2002 Honda CBR954RR Fireblade

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post #7 of 14 Old 08-28-2013, 12:17 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Electrical - Cluster only works when brakes are on

Well it wasnt the ECU. My next thought is the injectors and or coils. Bike still idles and misses intermittently causing one or two of the cylinders to completely stop firing and making the bike clank real loud when it does. If I rev it up, it will pick up and work again but when I hit low idle it cuts out completly. Not sure which cylinder it is but it doesn't really matter. The cost of two new injectors is about the same as an entire used air box and injector rail from a wrecked bike on ebay so I guess my next step is to replace the injectors/rails, and the sub wire harness for them. [$200 aprox] I can return the ECU too but I am thinking I may keep it.

I feel a bit stupid too for not doing a quick compression test while I had the plugs out.... So I am going to strip the bike again... and do that before I buy anything else. OMG....I totally for got to even unplug the power commander [I did remap it to see if that was the issue] and try it without the Commander... Could a bad PCV cause this I wonder...? that would be something and I would feel real dumb, lol

What about the Stator, from what I have been reading it could be that. It does idle just fine for about 40 seconds. My bike always heats up super fast though [I live in Florida, so half the time My cluster is reading a temp before I even start the bike. Could a bad stator cause a cylinder to fail intermittently? Or wouldn't it just fail?

Last edited by etdavenporte; 08-28-2013 at 12:48 AM.
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post #8 of 14 Old 08-28-2013, 1:01 PM
 
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Re: Electrical - Cluster only works when brakes are on

I think if your stator was bad it would just not want to run for long and completely cut out. Even if it was going bad, once it got warm enough to fail it would still cut everything off (I believe). I would check the coils just to be safe, and figure out which cylinder is missing. Let it run for a bit then find your coldest header pipe. Better with an infrared temp reader, might save your finger-skin lol.

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post #9 of 14 Old 08-28-2013, 2:26 PM
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Re: Electrical - Cluster only works when brakes are on

Quote:
Originally Posted by etdavenporte View Post
This bike has been giving me a load of trouble out of nowhere. it started with an erratic idle. Then one day it wouldnt run without the idle screwed all the way in. I could hear bubbling and PSI release coming from the tank, so I removed it to make sure my breathers were not pinched. I took the battery out and had it tested also. After putting it all back together, My gauges [cluster] was not working and would only light up when I hit the brakes?! I am assuming it is a short somewhere but have not found anything so far. The bike runs at the moment but only with the idle screwed all the way in. I am currently in the process of stripping the bike and visually checking for shorts in the harness. I figured I would do the plugs while I had it stripped.

The last owner wired in tail lights and LEDs. I have removed the LEDS, and everything else he did. I have two wires in the rear harness that I have not identified. A brown one and a green one. Bike seems to run fine without them connected to anything and the lights still work. Otherwise everything appears normal.

Worst case, If this short is in the middle of a cluster somewhere, which part of the harness would affect both the brakes and the cluster If I just chose to replace the entire piece of the harness?


Any Ideas?

When you say "hit the brakes" do you mean it is somehow connected to one of the brake light switches (which brake are you using?) or that the effect of braking is allowing something on the bike to move around? Does the cluster go off again when you release the brake switch or because you stop slowing down?
Have you tried disconecting the brake light and each switch to try to isolate it?
If you were riding a 929/954 I'd be looking at the ground block in the harness, but I don't know if the 1000RR has it. Looking at the wiring diagram it appears that all the grounds come together at the main ground to the engine?

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post #10 of 14 Old 08-30-2013, 7:30 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Electrical - Cluster only works when brakes are on

Yea. I tried unplugging them one at a time and nothing. The cluster is still getting power. The clock stays set and the trip meter is clocking miles but it only comes on when the brakes are engaged. When on, the red light on the bottom right of the cluster is on and the Fi indicator. If i kinda pump the brake handle i can get the red light to go out and keep the cluster on but once i fully release the handle, the cluster display goes off again.
more weirdness.. while test riding today the blinker lights started working [blinkers always worked but the cluster did not show the lights blinking...] So Its not a full out short in the cluster, its fine, somehthing is jsut closing the circuit on the display somehow [which is very weird... it would have to be broken in two spots yet somehow touching the brake circuit and only closing when i hit the brakes?!...]
My engine trouble ended up being part of the loom in the front. I was having so much trouble finding it because the stator/rectifier/battery etc were all testing fine and the FI was working correctly. it wasn't until a wire completely slipped out of hits connector that I noticed it and was able to secure it... Bike runs great with the new plugs/filter/etc but still no cluster.
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post #11 of 14 Old 08-30-2013, 7:39 PM
 
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Re: Electrical - Cluster only works when brakes are on

Aghh. Sneaky wire came outta the junction block good catch. That explains the intermittent running before. But not so much the gauge ground issue. Have you checked its plugs to be sure wires are all pushed in securely?

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post #12 of 14 Old 08-30-2013, 8:53 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Electrical - Cluster only works when brakes are on

Quote:
Originally Posted by 900rrHonda View Post
Aghh. Sneaky wire came outta the junction block good catch. That explains the intermittent running before. But not so much the gauge ground issue. Have you checked its plugs to be sure wires are all pushed in securely?
no not yet, and when i hooked it all back in after doing the plugs, i connected them underneath the sub frame.... so i have to practically remove the airbox again just to get to them,... derp..

FOUND IT! After all said and done, I had shorted a fuse somewhere....lol So I checked the loom and the fuses and found a shorted 20 am for the cluster...lol Almost missed it because that was the first thing I checked when it all went bad and it was fine then...

Last edited by etdavenporte; 08-30-2013 at 9:14 PM.
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post #13 of 14 Old 08-30-2013, 11:57 PM
 
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Re: Electrical - Cluster only works when brakes are on

Sweet man. So alls good now?
Congrats.

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post #14 of 14 Old 11-12-2015, 11:26 PM
 
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Re: Electrical - Cluster only works when brakes are on

Get a used cluster I got one on eBay now and I'll give you a school boy price!
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