954 Smoking blue - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 18 Old 10-19-2013, 7:05 PM Thread Starter
 
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954 Smoking blue

I got a 954 2001 with now 37000KM (22990 Miles) on it. Got Full Laser Works exhaust, K&N airfilter and custom map PCIII.

So my 954 started smoking blue. Other than the smoke it rides strong. Had it custom mapped and it dynod at 147.7HP looks ok to me for a 954.
Checked compression and all are good just a bit above 170PSI.

My riding buddys noticed when i downshifted and then go full throttle it will blow blue. I tested it out and it also does it when in neutral and revving it. Doesnt do it when just cruising or gradually on the throttle. Seems to do it after engine braking.

So i suspected the Valve seals. So had a look in the exhaust ports and noticed 1 oily valve. So i went and change all the valve seals. In the last few days. Adjusted a few valves. Build it all together today and drove about 75 miles but it still smokes.

Anyone got anyclue what else it could be? I hate it when it smokes


Last edited by mrdoubleb; 10-19-2013 at 7:40 PM.
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post #2 of 18 Old 10-20-2013, 12:03 AM
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Re: 954 Smoking blue

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Originally Posted by mrdoubleb View Post
I got a 954 2001 with now 37000KM (22990 Miles) on it. Got Full Laser Works exhaust, K&N airfilter and custom map PCIII.

So my 954 started smoking blue. Other than the smoke it rides strong. Had it custom mapped and it dynod at 147.7HP looks ok to me for a 954.
Checked compression and all are good just a bit above 170PSI.

My riding buddys noticed when i downshifted and then go full throttle it will blow blue. I tested it out and it also does it when in neutral and revving it. Doesnt do it when just cruising or gradually on the throttle. Seems to do it after engine braking.

So i suspected the Valve seals. So had a look in the exhaust ports and noticed 1 oily valve. So i went and change all the valve seals. In the last few days. Adjusted a few valves. Build it all together today and drove about 75 miles but it still smokes.

Anyone got anyclue what else it could be? I hate it when it smokes


That has certainly been sucking oil through the valve guide.
Perhaps the guide is worn or cracked. Or perhaps the valve stem is worn at the seal.
I would pull the headers and inspect the valves again to see if it's the same one that's leaking.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #3 of 18 Old 10-20-2013, 1:32 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 954 Smoking blue

Ill do a few more km in a few days and pull headers after that.

If its still oily what would u suggest?
Fixing current head or find a good replacement?
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post #4 of 18 Old 10-21-2013, 7:42 AM
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Re: 954 Smoking blue

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Ill do a few more km in a few days and pull headers after that.

If its still oily what would u suggest?
Fixing current head or find a good replacement?

It would be quicker to simply swap a complete head on, although the cam shimming would need doing, unless you get a head complete with cams. Be sure to buy a head that has the original cam caps.
But if it is the same valve I would pull the head, inspect the guide and replace it if it's cracked.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #5 of 18 Old 03-09-2014, 5:28 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 954 Smoking blue

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Originally Posted by bladeracer View Post
It would be quicker to simply swap a complete head on, although the cam shimming would need doing, unless you get a head complete with cams. Be sure to buy a head that has the original cam caps.
But if it is the same valve I would pull the head, inspect the guide and replace it if it's cracked.
Just rode it again today after winter. Only few hunderd kms after i replaced the valve seals. As stated it did and does still smoke now after another few 100kms.

Probably gonna pull headers in the next few days to check the valve stem again as u stated to check if its still the same. If it is i think i am gonna pull the head and have that valve guide checked/replaced.

Now my question whats the easiest way to just pull the head?

If i got it off do i only need a new headgasket? I know on some cars they use strech bolt that can only be used once.
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post #6 of 18 Old 03-10-2014, 10:23 AM
 
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Re: 954 Smoking blue

You're going to have to drop the engine. Get yourself a Haynes manual - one for this bike is well written with excellent attention to detail. I just did a barrel lining replacement. I had blue smoke then pot 3 eventually failed to fire - all valves etc were in good order. In answer to your question, this is a re-build so you may as well spend 200 on new bolts gaskets etc and do it properly.
Mate of mine is coming up to 94k on an '02 blade, they're well built and will keep going with good maintenance Good luck, it's a project!
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post #7 of 18 Old 03-10-2014, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 954 Smoking blue

Thanks for your answer.

I know i need to drop the engine and that i can probably find how to in the manual. But i like to disassemble as little as possible other things to do so. So i thought i ask here as there are some people that maybe have a few tricks to drop it easily. Manual often specify s many things that don't necessarily need to be removed.

And i was going to replace head gasket anyway as i know that needs to be done when u get the head off. But why replace bolts when they can be re-used? If they are not torque to yield bolts i guess they can be reused. But i aint certain so that why i ask.
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post #8 of 18 Old 03-10-2014, 11:37 AM
 
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Re: 954 Smoking blue

The manual I referred you to goes into what parts you can leave on the engine as well. There will be things you'll use a 2nd time and get away with, like crushing down a new gasket and having to go back in. I did and I'm scornful of being told to use things once as well. Have you checked that these aren't torque to yield bolts? If they're ttt they can go back if tty they go beyond elasticity and might f things up.
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post #9 of 18 Old 03-10-2014, 11:46 AM
 
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Re: 954 Smoking blue

Should have mentioned about removing the engine - the manual (and this sounds like a u turn on what I've been saying) wants you to rig up a trolley jack and balance the engine down (same for replacing). I did this and ended up tying the engine to the frame and lowering with the jack cos it doesnt balance it without another pair o hands so you can damage it on the way down thru the frame. On replacing the engine I simpy lowered the frame onto it and guess i could've done same on taking it out.
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post #10 of 18 Old 03-10-2014, 11:47 AM
 
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Re: 954 Smoking blue

I am in the process of dropping mine now. Learn from my mistakes: trial/error. Take off throttlebodies without disconnecting throttle cable and save yourself hassle there. No need to remove kickstand... I took the swinger off, if you dont have a 5/8 or 24mm hex head go to lowes or something and get 5/8 hex head bolt, put 2 nuts on, tighten them up (make sure you can still get socket on) and weld it (a shop should do it for free..). Other than that it is pretty much by the manual. Drain everything, disconnect all electrical connections (color coded, easy), so on, so on...

If you need a manual pm me your email and I can send you one.

Will probably be making a thread soon of stuff I have done and tips Ive found through the process later...
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post #11 of 18 Old 03-10-2014, 11:54 AM
 
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Re: 954 Smoking blue

Hey there, any chance of you guys having a look at the last post of my (only) other thread and offering your advice please. I'm on the last stages and hope to be back on the road by next weekend.
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post #12 of 18 Old 03-12-2014, 8:11 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 954 Smoking blue

So i pulled headers a few days ago. And found out the valve isn't wet of oil anymore. They all look dry. But as stated it still smokes. I do find some oil in the intake though.

I replaced all seals. I dont know if its normal to find some oil in the intake. Like in my picture below. I thought it might be from the crankcase breather ?

But I am not sure though as the throttle bodies don't show any signs of oil passing.

The valve seals i used where from Athena they where all the same size. I just looked up the original honda part numbers and there they use different numbers for the intake and exhaust seals.






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post #13 of 18 Old 03-12-2014, 3:11 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 954 Smoking blue

So what do u people think when looking at the pictures? I dont wanna pull my head now for nothing. Bladeracer?
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post #14 of 18 Old 03-12-2014, 4:29 PM
 
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Re: 954 Smoking blue

The throttle bodies are way above suspicion.But the intake/outlet valve seals are different sizes. Have you run it like this as you suggest, maybe in the past? Your compression test seems ok but this is by no means thorough enough to tell you what's going on. When I had this prob my next was to pull and test each plug and injector but i guess you must have done this before taking the head off?? You're getting either oil up due to a barrel score or unburned fuel. That's my best and I hope it helps. Me, I've just rebuilt my old nag for similar stuff, what can i say?
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post #15 of 18 Old 03-12-2014, 5:12 PM
 
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Re: 954 Smoking blue

Camper, how come you're pulling your moto? What's up with it? By what you said it sounds like you've done it before.. same bike? I hope I don't have to pull mine apart again too soon, though I've got to say it's been emotional let alone a good learning curve...
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