New bike, Two Persistent Problems (fuel system) - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 21 Old 05-10-2014, 1:47 AM Thread Starter
 
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New bike, Two Persistent Problems (fuel system)

First of all, I'm a happy new '03 954 owner. I've been riding an F4I for a few years now, thought it was time to move on. The bike I purchased has 42k miles on it and is in great cosmetic/mechanical shape. Spent the weekend checking valve clearances, clutch wear, replacing chain and sprockets, (this weekend I'll be replacing the fork seals, thanks to a write up here) but there's two problems that persist;

After I fill up, get to my destination, shut the bike off and walk away for a few minutes, fuel begins to spill from the drain line off the charcoal canister. It's coming from the small line that connects the fuel tank to the canister. My best guess is that the tank is pressurizing and pushing fuel out somewhere. As far as I can tell, that line goes to some sort of ring near the filler opening. I'm not sure how it functions or it's purpose, but until the tank cools enough or the fuel level is low enough, it will continue to spew fuel out. I can, however, stand the bike upright and it stops. To add to the problem, the previous owner resealed the tank (and did a terrible job at that) and the sealant is all bubbly and looks terrible. So for all I know, that could be causing problems too. Or my other thought was that line has a small fracture in it (which basically makes the tank irreparable). I tried to "band-aid" it temporarily, and looped the small line up to the bigger drain line that allows water to leave the fuel cap area, hoping that gravity would keep the fuel spill under control, but it had no success. Fuel just came up over the filler cap and spilled all over the tank (and should it rain I'd have a tank full of watery gas!) And I'm afraid to cap it, as I assume that would vapor lock my tank...?

The second (and probably unrelated) problem, is the fuel light goes on and off intermittently. I'm going to check the harness for good connections and grounds, but figured I'd ask up here for suggestions.

Thanks,

Brian "bamato"
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post #2 of 21 Old 05-10-2014, 3:45 AM
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Re: New bike, Two Persistent Problems (fuel system)

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Originally Posted by bamato View Post
First of all, I'm a happy new '03 954 owner. I've been riding an F4I for a few years now, thought it was time to move on. The bike I purchased has 42k miles on it and is in great cosmetic/mechanical shape. Spent the weekend checking valve clearances, clutch wear, replacing chain and sprockets, (this weekend I'll be replacing the fork seals, thanks to a write up here) but there's two problems that persist;

After I fill up, get to my destination, shut the bike off and walk away for a few minutes, fuel begins to spill from the drain line off the charcoal canister. It's coming from the small line that connects the fuel tank to the canister. My best guess is that the tank is pressurizing and pushing fuel out somewhere. As far as I can tell, that line goes to some sort of ring near the filler opening. I'm not sure how it functions or it's purpose, but until the tank cools enough or the fuel level is low enough, it will continue to spew fuel out. I can, however, stand the bike upright and it stops. To add to the problem, the previous owner resealed the tank (and did a terrible job at that) and the sealant is all bubbly and looks terrible. So for all I know, that could be causing problems too. Or my other thought was that line has a small fracture in it (which basically makes the tank irreparable). I tried to "band-aid" it temporarily, and looped the small line up to the bigger drain line that allows water to leave the fuel cap area, hoping that gravity would keep the fuel spill under control, but it had no success. Fuel just came up over the filler cap and spilled all over the tank (and should it rain I'd have a tank full of watery gas!) And I'm afraid to cap it, as I assume that would vapor lock my tank...?

The second (and probably unrelated) problem, is the fuel light goes on and off intermittently. I'm going to check the harness for good connections and grounds, but figured I'd ask up here for suggestions.

Thanks,

Brian "bamato"

I'd be looking for a new tank. My guess is that the filler well drain pipe that goes through the tank got blocked, filled with water, and corroded through. And the "treatment" then blocked the tank vent.
Only Cali models have the carbon cannister.
As for the fuel sender, maybe they left the pump in the tank when they tried the sealant?

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post #3 of 21 Old 05-10-2014, 9:57 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: New bike, Two Persistent Problems (fuel system)

He was intelligent enough to remove the sending unit.
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post #4 of 21 Old 05-10-2014, 10:56 AM
 
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Re: New bike, Two Persistent Problems (fuel system)

Get a new tank.
Eventually that **** will clog your filter, or seize your pump.
This is what I got when the PO tried to seal the tank before I bought the bike.



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post #5 of 21 Old 05-11-2014, 2:27 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: New bike, Two Persistent Problems (fuel system)

Wow... that's pretty bad....
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post #6 of 21 Old 05-11-2014, 4:58 AM
 
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Re: New bike, Two Persistent Problems (fuel system)

Wow what is that coating. I have the same problem with the dripping fuel and it is a bitch to be only able to fill with 12 litres of fuel before it dripped out of the breather tube. I have to stop at nearly every petrol station when riding. Mine ended up being stale fuel in the tank for 2 years which corroded through the tube inside the tank. I have been fighting this fuel tank for nearly 2 years now only because it was spotless on the outside and I couldn't find a good second hand unit. I have coated inside my tank with some red coating which goes on thinner. That has been in there for around 18 months and is still going strong. And my tube I had to cut out the rust line where fuel level sat and am still trying different stuff to seal it back up. Just yesterday I tried Viton tubing with an epoxy resin to glue and clamp back up. Not sure if it has worked yet but will let you know.
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post #7 of 21 Old 05-11-2014, 12:02 PM
 
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Re: New bike, Two Persistent Problems (fuel system)






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post #8 of 21 Old 05-12-2014, 1:37 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: New bike, Two Persistent Problems (fuel system)

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Just yesterday I tried Viton tubing with an epoxy resin to glue and clamp back up. Not sure if it has worked yet but will let you know.
I'd be interested in seeing how that works.

While I'd prefer to purchase a new tank, I'm not willing to spend that kind of money yet. After speaking with my local all around mechanic, I think the next step will be to cut the underside of the tank open, find the issue, weld/fix it, then weld the tank back together (I can do all this in my own garage, so the cost is zero). Etch all that crap out of the tank, and reseal it. Worst that could happen, I end up needing a new tank anyway, so I've got nothing to lose trying. I'll keep you all posted.

Thanks for the help so far.
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post #9 of 21 Old 05-12-2014, 1:38 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: New bike, Two Persistent Problems (fuel system)

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Thanks!
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post #10 of 21 Old 05-13-2014, 6:20 AM
 
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Re: New bike, Two Persistent Problems (fuel system)

I tried to get someone to cut the underside and everyone said no way. I didn't want to get a new one due to price and Im taking mine to do my first track day. I will let you know how the leak goes. If you do fill the tank and let it sit till the petrol stops dripping out of the tube, how many litres do you loose. That will tell you where the leak is and then you can see how hard it will be to cut that piece out. Is that liner any chemical dissolvable cause that will be the deciding factor on if you can save this tank
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post #11 of 21 Old 05-13-2014, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: New bike, Two Persistent Problems (fuel system)

I'm fairly certain I can chemical etch the tank and that liner will come off.

As far as I can tell, the tank only leaks under pressure (if the engine is warming the tank, or the sun). I'll know more once I can get in there and figure it out. I do need to figure out at what level it stops leaking though. Just annoying that I can't fill it up all the way, and it's further complicated by the fact that I don't have a properly functioning fuel light...
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post #12 of 21 Old 06-05-2014, 2:09 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: New bike, Two Persistent Problems (fuel system)

Well, after going back and forth trying to decide what to do, I think I've decided to just purchase a used tank. Found a perfect one that's rust free on fleabay for 360 (and it matches my paint). I'm 100% certain that we could open up the tank and fix the leak. My headache has been over how I'm going to get every little bit of that liner out without damaging the paint on my tank (MEK or aircraft stripper are very risky). Any left over won't allow the new coating to stick well, and I'll end up with a mess.

Although it'll cost more, I'll have peace of mind, a pretty new tank, and it will save me an entire weekend worth of work. I figured I can try to sell the old tank on fleabay (if someone else wants to try their hand at it, and the paint on it is still in excellent shape) and return all the chemicals and sealants and that should help with the cost of the new tank.
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post #13 of 21 Old 06-20-2014, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: New bike, Two Persistent Problems (fuel system)

So the new tank and fuel pump came in. The new tank looks and works great (aside from the dimwitted use of packing tape that I now have to remove from the tank). Even with the new fuel pump, I'm still having problems with the fuel light coming on and off intermittently.

Suggestions? There would have to be a short somewhere in the wiring or gauge for the light to illuminate...
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post #14 of 21 Old 06-20-2014, 5:23 PM
 
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Re: New bike, Two Persistent Problems (fuel system)

This is what the fuel level indicator looks like. When the fuel level drops below the silver sending unit, it sends a signal to your instrument panel. That white wire comes out of the bottom of your tank, so you can inspect it and trace it up the line to look for damage.



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post #15 of 21 Old 06-20-2014, 5:52 PM
 
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Re: New bike, Two Persistent Problems (fuel system)

It's the wire with the black stripe.

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