Let the rebuild begin... - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
Honda FireBlade Discussion of the Honda CBR 900RR, Honda CBR 929RR, Honda CBR 954RR, and Honda CBR 1000RR Motorcycles.

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post #1 of 23 Old 09-10-2014, 12:10 PM Thread Starter
 
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Let the rebuild begin...

Thank you to the fellas who have helped up to this point on my 2001 CBR929RR but it appears as if a rebuild of the engine is in order.

To update:
1. Did not have spark at plugs to begin. Sorted that out with the diode repair.
2. Fuel pump would not prime properly. Sorted that out with a new (used) ECU and replaced the pump with a new as a precaution.

With spark at the plugs, fuel being injected into cylinders, and cam/crank timing verified the engine still would not run. Did the compression tests (dry/wet) and compression was 65-70psi dry but shot up during the wet test.
Opted to pull motor to do a full rebuild. After removing the head last night it appears the cylinder walls have deep vertical scoring and on the #1 cylinder there are deep pockets were material is missing.

My plan is to post a few pics for others to see and chronicle the rebuild process.

The starting point will be choosing between Millennium Technologies, US Chrome and any other quality company to do the cylinder work.


Does anyone have specific experience in this area to make a recommendation of who to go through? I live about 1.5 hrs away from Millennium Tech but would like opinions if possible.

Thanks.

John
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post #2 of 23 Old 09-10-2014, 12:43 PM
 
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Re: Let the rebuild begin...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnortonjr View Post
Thank you to the fellas who have helped up to this point on my 2001 CBR929RR but it appears as if a rebuild of the engine is in order.

To update:
1. Did not have spark at plugs to begin. Sorted that out with the diode repair.
2. Fuel pump would not prime properly. Sorted that out with a new (used) ECU and replaced the pump with a new as a precaution.

With spark at the plugs, fuel being injected into cylinders, and cam/crank timing verified the engine still would not run. Did the compression tests (dry/wet) and compression was 65-70psi dry but shot up during the wet test.
Opted to pull motor to do a full rebuild. After removing the head last night it appears the cylinder walls have deep vertical scoring and on the #1 cylinder there are deep pockets were material is missing.

My plan is to post a few pics for others to see and chronicle the rebuild process.

The starting point will be choosing between Millennium Technologies, US Chrome and any other quality company to do the cylinder work.


Does anyone have specific experience in this area to make a recommendation of who to go through? I live about 1.5 hrs away from Millennium Tech but would like opinions if possible.

Thanks.

John
Mika_U's top case - CBR Forum - Enthusiast forums for Honda CBR Owners






Last edited by mika_u; 09-10-2014 at 1:00 PM.
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post #3 of 23 Old 09-10-2014, 12:56 PM
 
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Re: Let the rebuild begin...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnortonjr View Post
Thank you to the fellas who have helped up to this point on my 2001 CBR929RR but it appears as if a rebuild of the engine is in order.

To update:
1. Did not have spark at plugs to begin. Sorted that out with the diode repair.
2. Fuel pump would not prime properly. Sorted that out with a new (used) ECU and replaced the pump with a new as a precaution.

With spark at the plugs, fuel being injected into cylinders, and cam/crank timing verified the engine still would not run. Did the compression tests (dry/wet) and compression was 65-70psi dry but shot up during the wet test.
Opted to pull motor to do a full rebuild. After removing the head last night it appears the cylinder walls have deep vertical scoring and on the #1 cylinder there are deep pockets were material is missing.

My plan is to post a few pics for others to see and chronicle the rebuild process.

The starting point will be choosing between Millennium Technologies, US Chrome and any other quality company to do the cylinder work.


Does anyone have specific experience in this area to make a recommendation of who to go through? I live about 1.5 hrs away from Millennium Tech but would like opinions if possible.

Thanks.

John
I have used Millennium before, they did my 900 (the one in my sig) and have heard great things from a racer buddy/shop owner who raves about US Chrome. I'd say call them both, and see which falls in your budget and schedule becasue they both do quality work.

Last edited by Mikeo; 09-10-2014 at 1:01 PM.
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post #4 of 23 Old 09-10-2014, 1:15 PM
 
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Re: Let the rebuild begin...

I hadn't noticed you were in Wisconsin, look up Farrell Performance in Oshkosh, that guy is a wizard and can help you out. His name is Jason Farrell.
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post #5 of 23 Old 09-10-2014, 1:25 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Let the rebuild begin...

Wow. Ok. Thanks for the information/replies.

I'll have to go through both builds to get some more information. FWIW, I'm not planning on a crazy overbore with bigger pistons, I'm simply looking to rebuild back to (or marginally better than) factory specs.

Thanks for the help.

John
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post #6 of 23 Old 09-10-2014, 1:25 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Let the rebuild begin...

Awesome! I'll give Jason a shout!
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post #7 of 23 Old 09-10-2014, 1:38 PM
 
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Re: Let the rebuild begin...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jnortonjr View Post
Wow. Ok. Thanks for the information/replies.

I'll have to go through both builds to get some more information. FWIW, I'm not planning on a crazy overbore with bigger pistons, I'm simply looking to rebuild back to (or marginally better than) factory specs.

Thanks for the help.

John
The link is just to the thread were a pictures of my casing trashed by millenium. They didn't ever do anything to compensate the damage they made or try to fix it. It was repaired here locally but the Finnish shop that was the middle man on this paid the bill for fixing the upper case. They just said somebody had machined the casing after them. Which i seriously doubt.
They send the casing packed to Schnitz racing who sent it to Finland.

Haven't personally used u.s. chrome but would prefer it anytime over millenium. I still get angry just thinking about it.
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post #8 of 23 Old 09-10-2014, 1:50 PM
 
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Re: Let the rebuild begin...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mika_u View Post
The link is just to the thread were a pictures of my casing trashed by millenium. They didn't ever do anything to compensate the damage they made or try to fix it. It was repaired here locally but the Finnish shop that was the middle man on this paid the bill for fixing the upper case. They just said somebody had machined the casing after them. Which i seriously doubt.
They send the casing packed to Schnitz racing who sent it to Finland.

Haven't personally used u.s. chrome but would prefer it anytime over millenium. I still get angry just thinking about it.
Oh man, that sucks, I have had nothing but good luck with them, but after seeing your fiasco, I will think twice about them in the future.
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post #9 of 23 Old 09-10-2014, 2:52 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Let the rebuild begin...

Yeah, I read the whole post and gathered that Millennium did the work but I didn't see a post to see how it was resolved. Sorry to hear about your situation.

I did call Jason Ferrell this afternoon and am hoping to get the ball rolling quickly here. Really want to get the bike back together and enjoy some Fall riding.

I'm also considering just buying a used case and building around that (as long as the cylinder bores are good).
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post #10 of 23 Old 09-10-2014, 3:20 PM
 
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Re: Let the rebuild begin...

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Originally Posted by jnortonjr View Post
Yeah, I read the whole post and gathered that Millennium did the work but I didn't see a post to see how it was resolved. Sorry to hear about your situation.

I did call Jason Ferrell this afternoon and am hoping to get the ball rolling quickly here. Really want to get the bike back together and enjoy some Fall riding.

I'm also considering just buying a used case and building around that (as long as the cylinder bores are good).
It was welded and machined here in Finland. And the bores were re-honed. The shop i ordered the service paid the bill. Millenium never admitted their **** up or paid anything. It's the upper casing of my 980cc 954.
https://www.fireblades.org/forums/hon...-few-pics.html

You won't find casings that would have the bores in good condition. It's typical for Hondas alusil to have scoring.

Last edited by mika_u; 09-10-2014 at 3:35 PM.
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post #11 of 23 Old 09-10-2014, 3:37 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Let the rebuild begin...

Good information Mika. Thank you.

You mentioned Alusil. Is that the coating that is on the cylinder walls that's breaking down? Is the coating that US Chrome (and others...) more durable than stock? It seems to me that an engine with 12k miles shouldn't look this bad.

John
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post #12 of 23 Old 09-10-2014, 4:03 PM
 
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Re: Let the rebuild begin...

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Originally Posted by jnortonjr View Post
Good information Mika. Thank you.

You mentioned Alusil. Is that the coating that is on the cylinder walls that's breaking down? Is the coating that US Chrome (and others...) more durable than stock? It seems to me that an engine with 12k miles shouldn't look this bad.

John
It isn't a coating. It's hypereutectic aluminium that is etched to expose silicon in it that should be sliding surface for rings and skirts.
Alusil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nicasil that U.S. Chrome, Millenium and all of the big manufacturers use/apply on their newer bikes is a coating. It's much better. It's harder, doesn't need coated skirts and special rings and isn't so sensitive. On the alusil the piston skirt coating needs just to wear little bit and there is aluminium against aluminium and the scoring starts. Porsche has used alusil a long time but only one apparently that knows how to plate the piston skirts right is Mahle. Other manufacturers plating wears of or starts to flake of.
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post #13 of 23 Old 09-10-2014, 4:30 PM
 
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Re: Let the rebuild begin...

yeah ive never seen a 954 block split that didnt have some level of scoring on it. ive never used either place but ive read a lot of threads with people who have used u.s. chrome and have been happy with the results. apparently they are very competitively priced as well from what ive read.

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post #14 of 23 Old 09-10-2014, 4:41 PM
 
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Re: Let the rebuild begin...

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yeah ive never seen a 954 block split that didnt have some level of scoring on it. ive never used either place but ive read a lot of threads with people who have used u.s. chrome and have been happy with the results. apparently they are very competitively priced as well from what ive read.
U.S. Chromes list prices are few bucks cheaper then Milleniums and they are the only ones i know that can do the 954 cylinders/casing. I've seen 5 954 casings in real life and maybe 10 sale ads + all the questions what to do with this and project topics and all have the same scoring from the piston skirts. Never seen a one without that scoring.
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post #15 of 23 Old 09-10-2014, 5:57 PM
 
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Re: Let the rebuild begin...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mika_u View Post
U.S. Chromes list prices are few bucks cheaper then Milleniums and they are the only ones i know that can do the 954 cylinders/casing. I've seen 5 954 casings in real life and maybe 10 sale ads + all the questions what to do with this and project topics and all have the same scoring from the piston skirts. Never seen a one without that scoring.
yeah ill be interested to see the pictures of his. im not saying they arent the reason its not running because who knows but with those low a miles and like you said its on pretty much every 954 i kinda doubt they really need to be done.

im sure if you didnt already know to expect that scoring tho it probably looks a lot worse than it really is. i remember the first one i saw split n was like wow! thats a problem! when it really wasnt as bad as i thought just by looking at it.

you mentioned getting a new used case n building from that but you can expect those same scoring marks on pretty much any used case your going to find. these bikes have been known to go 100,000 miles n never needing them re-plated n you know they have them.

but if say a piece of sleeve broke loose of part of a valve guide or something n got in there it could have gouged the walls being a problem of coarse.

you said you got even compression readings on all cylinders?

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