2007 CBR1K Neutral/Crank issue when over 180 degrees. - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 7 Old 06-25-2016, 3:33 PM Thread Starter
 
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2007 CBR1K Neutral/Crank issue when over 180 degrees.

Hello fellow CBR riders.

As the title states, I've been having an issue that started a couple months ago. Basically, when my bike is cold, she'll start up just fine, no issues whatsoever, neutral indicator and sensor comes on just fine.

However, if I ride her around and she gets up to and over 180 degrees, when I shift into neutral, the indicator/sensor starts to come in and out, and then over 185 the indicator doesn't come on at all and the bike idles as if it's in gear.

The other part of the problem is also if I stop and shut down the bike, then try to start it, the crank doesn't turn over whatsoever. I know the ignition switch is okay because the headlight turns off when I press the ignition switch, and the fuel pump primes everytime I turn on the master switch.

But when the bike cools off, say 175 and below, she'll crank and fire up right away/the neutral indicator will work fine. I was thinking of the possibility the ground at my Neutral Switch is going out... But wanted other thoughts about this.
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post #2 of 7 Old 06-25-2016, 10:53 PM
 
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Re: 2007 CBR1K Neutral/Crank issue when over 180 degrees.

Does the oil pressure light work normally? That would rule out a problem with the positive side of the circuit.

I would bet that the NSS is faulty and not making a connection when it's hot. To test it, get the bike hot, pull the wire off the switch and ground it. If the light comes on, your switch is bad.
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post #3 of 7 Old 06-26-2016, 1:51 PM
 
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Re: 2007 CBR1K Neutral/Crank issue when over 180 degrees.

I'm going to explain magnetism and his two sidekicks, heat and chemical reaction. Mag is moving thru wires and other jobbers needing electricity. Heat is the killer and chemRe is the coating.

Just for grins, no idea the age of the battery, the prep of the battery, the cable installation of the battery, I'd move to the battery and scrape clean the bottom of the cable ends and the tops of the battery posts with a single edge razor. This removes any chemRe [in between] the cables that may stop the flow from their connection points.

There is nothing wrong with the parts if cold starts them up. Switch is grounded or would not come on if cold or hot. Other chemRe problems are looking at all your connectors and seeing if there is green chem build at the pins. Lots of heat, lots of resistance going on there.

Scrap cables and use vaseline all over the nuts, bolts touch points. It's like compression. Get this out of the way first are tight battery leads and chemRe free of the white powder build at those contact points. Missouri about as damp as a wet rag?
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post #4 of 7 Old 06-29-2016, 8:07 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 2007 CBR1K Neutral/Crank issue when over 180 degrees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atimm693 View Post
Does the oil pressure light work normally? That would rule out a problem with the positive side of the circuit.

I would bet that the NSS is faulty and not making a connection when it's hot. To test it, get the bike hot, pull the wire off the switch and ground it. If the light comes on, your switch is bad.
Oil Pressure Light comes on just fine when I turn the key to On, so no problem with that.

I was considering the NSS, however I've heard they're pretty solid, but my bike just hit 38k so I don't know if that's considered "alot" or not. I tried googling where the exact location of the NSS/Connector is but couldn't find it... Any chance you could help with that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
I'm going to explain magnetism and his two sidekicks, heat and chemical reaction. Mag is moving thru wires and other jobbers needing electricity. Heat is the killer and chemRe is the coating.

Just for grins, no idea the age of the battery, the prep of the battery, the cable installation of the battery, I'd move to the battery and scrape clean the bottom of the cable ends and the tops of the battery posts with a single edge razor. This removes any chemRe [in between] the cables that may stop the flow from their connection points.

There is nothing wrong with the parts if cold starts them up. Switch is grounded or would not come on if cold or hot. Other chemRe problems are looking at all your connectors and seeing if there is green chem build at the pins. Lots of heat, lots of resistance going on there.

Scrap cables and use vaseline all over the nuts, bolts touch points. It's like compression. Get this out of the way first are tight battery leads and chemRe free of the white powder build at those contact points. Missouri about as damp as a wet rag?
I've checked all the cables before and no corrosion on the wires/connectors, I do understand what you refer to though since I'm basically a technician so it makes sense. However also living in California, it's usually pretty dry around here. Bottom of the battery is clean as a whistle, but I don't think it's too old since it retains it's charge/provides more than enough juice when I'm able to start it.

Just another thing I noticed... About once or twice a month, when I do turn the key to on and hit the start switch, light cuts out, oil light goes off.... And just a click, no crank. Put the bike in 1st, rock it back and forth to move the starter, then it fires right up...

At this point I'm thinking it's either the NSS or Starter, but leaning more towards the NSS...

Update:

So I found the position of the NSS... On the back side of the engine next to the mid pipe/rear spring... How do you get to that? Take off the mid pipe?

Update #2: Checked the haynes manual... Seems I do have to take off the exhaust/mid pipe to get to it. However, was able to squeeze my hand and physically touch the back of the sensor... The Neutral indicator was flickering. Seems it's not on fully, so guess I'll save it for the weekend when I have more time.

Last edited by adambombz; 06-29-2016 at 10:24 PM.
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post #5 of 7 Old 06-30-2016, 12:21 AM
 
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Re: 2007 CBR1K Neutral/Crank issue when over 180 degrees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adambombz View Post
I was thinking of the possibility the ground at my Neutral Switch is going out... But wanted other thoughts about this.
Usually first instinct works out. If you're lucky, wire is looser when hotter is maybe not. Manually moving the switch and flickers is not a sensor out of range. Sounds like a bad ground. If you can solder back the frayed ends or whatever is loose at the harness when pushed, I would assume that's probably it. Sounds like all the signs of a NSS, but when it cranked over, ah, was in N anyway. In gear it shouldn't start as you pointed out when it didn't. So it being hooked up anyway can dual duty is

Quote:
and then over 185 the indicator doesn't come on at all and the bike idles as if it's in gear.
This was a clue right in front of my face.

Quote:
The other part of the problem is also if I stop and shut down the bike, then try to start it, the crank doesn't turn over whatsoever.
Clue number 2.

Quote:
I know the ignition switch is okay because the headlight turns off when I press the ignition switch, and the fuel pump primes everytime I turn on the master switch.
Clue #3. Light/pump/switch all have no clue is you plugging into a 4 plug wall socket and the 4 of you are on your own laptops/cell phones sort of hot spot is the junction at the switch.

Quote:
But when the bike cools off, say 175 and below, she'll crank and fire up right away/the neutral indicator will work fine. I was thinking of the possibility the ground at my Neutral Switch is going out... But wanted other thoughts about this.
Ding-Ding-Ding! We have a winner!

Yes, I also notice on the slowdown, N has its own mapping. I can pull the clutch in and we are back to what feels like N's 'ign curve' slamming down [on my bike]; so my guess is that we must be on the same page as this bike(s). School myself coming to other computer bike sites. Same throttle snatch you go modding smack into a limp, and same sort of default getting there is the clutch switch is going in and out of N's default we lose the NSS. I missed that adding the [NSS] on the 'limp list.'

Make sense about your instinctive guess? Make sense about the chemRe and now the hindsight? So, how close am I to looking at strands of wires taking the heat cold, but when hot; how much juice can you flow with one C-hair for a sensor wire?

I think you found it. I agree with your abstract's function. It: Walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, talks like a _ _ _ _.
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post #6 of 7 Old 07-02-2016, 11:02 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 2007 CBR1K Neutral/Crank issue when over 180 degrees.

So went and took off the neutral switch sensor, and this is what I found:

Old is on the left, new is on the right.

Seems the housing around the pin of the old one was loose and causing the female side to not seat properly when hot. Swapped it out and everything is perfectly fine. Thanks for the help!
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post #7 of 7 Old 07-03-2016, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 2007 CBR1K Neutral/Crank issue when over 180 degrees.

Actually Catch22, you sound like another Electrically Savvy person, so let me pick your brain for a bit...

This happened after I changed out the neutral switch. Now when I go to start the bike, regardless of it being cold or hot, neutral switch is working fine, master switch is on, turn the key on, fuel pump primes, fault indicator comes on then off.

Hit the start switch... Loud click from the starter solenoid, headlight goes off, however no crank on the starter motor. Put the bike in first, rock it back and forth with the clutch handle out to physically move the start motor, back into neutral and hit the start switch.. Bike cranks and starts, however it sounds like there's a consistent draw on the battery and it's not charging while I ride...

I'm curious as to if the internals of the starter solenoid might be bad, so I took it off and shook it.. I can hear the inner contacts click, as they should be since they're neutral and not energized... I'm going to take it apart and look at them to see if everything is physically okay.

The only thing I could think is that before when I was looking at the 30 amp master fuze, I turned the solenoid from an upright position to a sideways position.. Maybe doing that is causing the inner contacts to always sit in an akward way where they are drawing power from the battery and thus for preventing it from being charged/discharging it while the bike it off?

Update:Think I fixed the problem. Took out the started relay, noticed the connector had some mild corrosion on it. cleaned it all off, did some "drop test" on it also to make sure nothing was sticking, took it back to the bike and cleaned up a ton of crappy wiring from the previous owner. Put it back in and the bike started on the first try. I'll have to start it again later and see if it works, take it out for a test ride and see if the battery is charging again.

Last edited by adambombz; 07-03-2016 at 2:59 PM.
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