Need help with electrical (starting/charging system) on '96 - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 9 Old 08-02-2016, 1:24 AM Thread Starter
 
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Need help with electrical (starting/charging system) on '96

I hit a road block on getting my blade back together. Here's the current situation:

I went through most of the electrical system to get rid of melted and corroded wires and connectors that were on the bike when I bought it--interestingly enough, it would start in run when I first picked it up. I have replaced the R/R, its connector, and the battery to ground and battery to relay cables. I had initially replaced the starter relay (and its connector) as well, but I'm pretty sure I toasted it after connecting the cables backwards--the new relay no longer reads continuity between the battery-side post and the main fuse.... oops. So the old relay went back on, since it, as far as I know, is okay.

The problem that I am having is that it keeps blowing the main fuse as soon as I push the connector onto it. A few things to note on that:

1. With the starter cable and R/R disconnected, everything works fine. All lights and indicators work correctly and the relay clicks when I hit the start button. If I connect either, the fuse blows (with or without the key on.)

2. With the relay harness disconnected and the starter cable connected (R/R still disconnected) I get continuity but no current between the starter post and ground--that should be right, correct? Reconnect the relay and the fuse blows.

3. The starter turns over when jumped direct to battery.

4. With the battery connected, the starter cable disconnected, and the R/R connected, connecting the relay blows the fuse.

5. I get continuity only from ground to ground (negative to green) on the R/R connector, so sans a wonky pinout, the wiring should be good. Pin order follows the format that came with the R/R (yellow wires on the three top pins, hot (red) on the bottom left, and ground (green) on the bottom right.) I get continuity between yellows and no continuity between yellow/red, yellow/green, or red/green--at the connector.

All that said, I'm lost. There don't seem to be any problems with the wiring; if there were, I should have found a short to ground while checking continuity. Looking at the wiring diagrams, the system doesn't seem all too complex, and I should have been able to isolate the problem--the relay being the likely culprit. I would think, however, that it would consistently blow the fuse. That the electronics work without the starter and rectifier connected--but the fuse blows when EITHER is connected--throws me for a loop since there is no common link between them (that I see) BUT the ground.

Can the relay somehow short so awkwardly or should I look towards the R/R or something else?
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post #2 of 9 Old 08-02-2016, 4:09 AM
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Re: Need help with electrical (starting/charging system) on '96

Do you have pics you can post? Are you sure the positive cable and starter motor cables are on the right posts of the solenoid?

It should be (as if it were still mounted properly on the bike) positive battery cable on the inner (left) post, and starter cable on the outer (right) post.

More likely though, did you redo the wires in the solenoid connector? There is a red AND a red white. The red white should come out from the R/R to the solenoid connector, then the solid red in the connector goes out to the fuse box (lights, horn, fan, etc).

I think that's where you problem may lie.

My 99 900RR Track Build Link:Track Build 900RRX

My Red Rocker 93 Build Link: Café 900RRP
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Re: Need help with electrical (starting/charging system) on '96

I'll have to snap pics later. I made sure the cables were connected to the solenoid/relay correctly after toasting the newer relay that was reverse of stock. The connector was redone--I think it was wired in correctly, unless I got it backwards at some point; the wires were connected in reference to positions on the old one since the new connector uses different wiring colors. I'll double check it and post pics when I get home.
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post #4 of 9 Old 08-02-2016, 10:45 AM
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Re: Need help with electrical (starting/charging system) on '96

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Originally Posted by awmosby View Post
I'll have to snap pics later. I made sure the cables were connected to the solenoid/relay correctly after toasting the newer relay that was reverse of stock. The connector was redone--I think it was wired in correctly, unless I got it backwards at some point; the wires were connected in reference to positions on the old one since the new connector uses different wiring colors. I'll double check it and post pics when I get home.
I actually misspoke. The solid red goes out of the solenoid connector to the ignition (key) switch. Then the red/black from the ignition switch goes out to the fuse box. Just wanted to clarify that lol

Still, I can't see it being anything else, because the power goes to the ignition switch then stops. Until you turn the key. Your issue happens with the key off, correct?

My 99 900RR Track Build Link:Track Build 900RRX

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post #5 of 9 Old 08-02-2016, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Need help with electrical (starting/charging system) on '96

Yeppers, the fuse pops with the key off. I may have had a misdiagnosis as well. Played with the wiring for a few minutes and put a jumper wire between the solenoid and starter; it didn't blow the fuse with just the starter connected, so it must be only when the R/R is wired in. I'm thinking it could either be a defective R/R or relay. There is continuity between the red wire terminals at the relay, which, if it is supposed to be that way, the connector pinout wouldn't matter, as long as the red and red/white wires go to the correct tandem posts. Seeing as how the ignition switch works without the R/R connected, it should be good there.

I'm wondering if it is possibly a fault in the R/R or the pin layout at the R/R connector?
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post #6 of 9 Old 08-02-2016, 11:47 AM
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Re: Need help with electrical (starting/charging system) on '96

The RR has no bearing on the system until the motor is running. The rotating stator creates the AC that goes into the RR on the yellows, to come out on the red/white as DC regulated to 14+-V. All it does is charge the battery. If you disconnected the RR connector while the engine was running the engine would continue to run without issue on straight battery DCV until the battery was drained. The red/white from the RR only supplies the "charging DC voltage" power to the battery. It should be on the left rear of the solenoid plug. You seem like you're well versed with electrics, so I apologize if I'm repeating stuff you already know.

Pic of my 93's before my MOSFET upgrade:



There has to be a short in the solenoid connector, or the solenoid itself. Did you have to rework that connector? Your first post said you had done some rewire work and connector replacement. I did my 93 and my 99, taking the charging system stuff out of the wire harness and making it a stand alone system. When that's done, it's amazingly simple.

My system does not connect to the solenoid plug anymore.



The black goes to right to the ground on the starter motor mount, and the positive has an in line 30a fuse which goes right to the battery. The 3 stator wires are all separate and go right to the stator.



So far it's working a treat. I would recommend it, I have it both my 900's.

Sounds like your pin layout as you described for the RR is right too:



I guess another new solenoid may be needed.

My 99 900RR Track Build Link:Track Build 900RRX

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post #7 of 9 Old 08-02-2016, 6:27 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Need help with electrical (starting/charging system) on '96

Going off of your pics, it looks like the R/R connector is wired wrong and causing it to ground out:


I'll go swap the connectors across, and if it works I get to chalk it up to bass ackwards instructions from the supplier . I ordered another solenoid/relay as well, though... just in case. I might end up bypassing the connector just to avoid the hassle of tracing shorts through it; that seems much more practical at the moment.

Edit: That was the culprit. A few hours searching for a 2 minute fix
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Last edited by awmosby; 08-02-2016 at 6:45 PM.
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post #8 of 9 Old 08-02-2016, 6:56 PM
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Re: Need help with electrical (starting/charging system) on '96



Well, glad you got it figured lol

But still, your description of the wires in your RR was correct.

"5. I get continuity only from ground to ground (negative to green) on the R/R connector, so sans a wonky pinout, the wiring should be good. Pin order follows the format that came with the R/R (yellow wires on the three top pins, hot (red) on the bottom left, and ground (green) on the bottom right.) I get continuity between yellows and no continuity between yellow/red, yellow/green, or red/green--at the connector."

You must have had the connector upside down lol Oh well

Ride on!

My 99 900RR Track Build Link:Track Build 900RRX

My Red Rocker 93 Build Link: Café 900RRP
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post #9 of 9 Old 08-02-2016, 7:31 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Need help with electrical (starting/charging system) on '96

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Originally Posted by IanDoohan View Post


Well, glad you got it figured lol

But still, your description of the wires in your RR was correct.

"5. I get continuity only from ground to ground (negative to green) on the R/R connector, so sans a wonky pinout, the wiring should be good. Pin order follows the format that came with the R/R (yellow wires on the three top pins, hot (red) on the bottom left, and ground (green) on the bottom right.) I get continuity between yellows and no continuity between yellow/red, yellow/green, or red/green--at the connector."

You must have had the connector upside down lol Oh well

Ride on!
Looking at it from the opposite direction lol
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