Clutch problem 954rr - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 16 Old 08-05-2016, 2:05 PM Thread Starter
 
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Clutch problem 954rr

I seem to be having a problem with the clutch, I have done the oil and filter change today with
Castrol Power 1 10w40 Semi-Synthetic Oil

I am not sure if this oil is making the clutch slip or the actual clutch needs new plates?



If i am being honest i never even tested this at all since i had the bike as we all know i have been stripping it down and doing the head work...
I have only just noticed now while it was on the paddock stand going through the gears to get the oil moving through the gear assembly, Problem is i will start in neutral and click into 1st with clutch still held in and slowly releasing the clutch, The wheel will spin and i will slowly engage the clutch and it stops....normal YES... If i disengage the clutch fully the wheel will keep spinning pretty fast. I will engage the clutch and the wheel will keep spinning.



Any suggestions - New clutch needed?


Would this oil cause the clutch to slip like this.

Let me know if you want a video to show whats going on!
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post #2 of 16 Old 08-05-2016, 2:37 PM
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Re: Clutch problem 954rr

The oil will not cause the clutch to slip as it is a wet clutch design. If the clutch is slipping it wouldn't be from the oil used. There are plenty of people that don't use a motorcycle specific oil and don't have issues. From a high-level...oil is oil. What differentiates one oil from another is the additives in it. When you get to synthetics there are many different types but those are not going to cause a clutch to slip either as synthetic oils are used in motorcycles as well.

A video might help.
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post #3 of 16 Old 08-05-2016, 3:20 PM
 
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Re: Clutch problem 954rr

Its normal for the rear wheel to spin with bike running in neutral while on a rear stand. As the bike warms up it will slow down and you should be able to stop the rear wheel by hand at any time. You would never notice this if the bike was on the ground.

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post #4 of 16 Old 08-05-2016, 4:07 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Clutch problem 954rr

Quote:
Originally Posted by backdoc View Post
Its normal for the rear wheel to spin with bike running in neutral while on a rear stand. As the bike warms up it will slow down and you should be able to stop the rear wheel by hand at any time. You would never notice this if the bike was on the ground.

Yes i do understand that i will have wheel spin on warm up. What i am experiencing is wheel spinning with clutch pulled in...

Who uses semi synthetic in there 954? Ever encounter any clutch slipping? Not sure what came out the bike but i know what went in.
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post #5 of 16 Old 08-05-2016, 4:14 PM
 
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Re: Clutch problem 954rr

Quote:
Originally Posted by davebelcher View Post
Yes i do understand that i will have wheel spin on warm up. What i am experiencing is wheel spinning with clutch pulled in...

Who uses semi synthetic in there 954? Ever encounter any clutch slipping? Not sure what came out the bike but i know what went in.
Have you tried adjusting the clutch cable? How much slack at the clutch lever? When I replaced my clutch cable a few years ago the old one was so stiff you could barely pull the cable back and forth when off the bike. The new cable would slide back and forth just by tilting it up and down.

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post #6 of 16 Old 08-05-2016, 4:29 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Clutch problem 954rr

This is what is happening lads!


Just pulled the cable and its perfectly fine.
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post #7 of 16 Old 08-05-2016, 5:04 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Clutch problem 954rr

Ffs it looks like i have been had, It is marketed as semi synthetic on ebay and other websites but yet when i do some digging about it would seem it is in actual fact fully synthetic, Could this be why i am having clutch slipping.

This is what i found - just click the 10w -40 power 1 and you will see data sheet.

Castrol - PDS & MSDS Search


edit- seems it is part synthetic. There is actually 2- 1 race and the bottom 1 i never noticed before, The bottom 1 is the oil i have.

Last edited by davebelcher; 08-05-2016 at 5:09 PM.
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post #8 of 16 Old 08-05-2016, 7:42 PM
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Re: Clutch problem 954rr

As previosuly stated, there are plenty of motorcycles using synthetic oil. On a Triumph and Ducati it is factory filled with synthetic. The Ducati is a dry clutch but the Triumph is a wet clutch.

If synthetic oils caused issues with motorcycles, then why are there so many synthetic motorcycle oils? Does the owners manual state not to use synthetic oil or does it just give the oil requirements? Survey says......it just gives the requirements.

The oil will not cause the clutch to slip!
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post #9 of 16 Old 08-05-2016, 7:50 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Clutch problem 954rr

Quote:
Originally Posted by lanbrown View Post
As previosuly stated, there are plenty of motorcycles using synthetic oil. On a Triumph and Ducati it is factory filled with synthetic. The Ducati is a dry clutch but the Triumph is a wet clutch.

If synthetic oils caused issues with motorcycles, then why are there so many synthetic motorcycle oils? Does the owners manual state not to use synthetic oil or does it just give the oil requirements? Survey says......it just gives the requirements.

The oil will not cause the clutch to slip!

There are quite alot of threads regarding fully synthetic oil causing problems to other bikes causing clutch slip, Dont ask me why but people do suffer with the problem, maining because of MOLYBDENUM being part of the mix.

What would your thought be on this problem, Any reason the rear wheeel would spin so much in 1st gear? I understand it will spin but not this fast surely. With the bike nearly at 40k miles would it be best to rebuild the clutch with oem parts rather than aftermarket?
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post #10 of 16 Old 08-05-2016, 8:11 PM
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Re: Clutch problem 954rr

That is what they say but even Honda only states that an oil with no longer will have a clutch that lasts longer. If you look at the racing oil where they openly admit to moly being in it, they state that a clutch that is already worn will slip more with this oil. The key here is that they are already prefacing it that the clutch is worn to begin with.

The exact wording from Honda:
Quote:
The negative part about moly is that it can build up on clutch plates
and accelerate clutch slipping on a clutch that is already starting to wear. It takes
several thousand kilometers for the moly to accumulate enough to cause this
slippage however
Also, take Honda HP4 oil which is for motorcycles.


In that graph, 6 of the 19 motorcycle oils have moly in them. Also, Honda sold the HP4 oil with and without moly....the one in the graph is without moly. Mobil 1 didn't have that much more.

If Moly is a huge issue, then why is Honda selling oil with Moly. I definitely wouldn't use the Torco oil; that is a huge amount of moly and I would think they are using moly as an almost exclusive anti-wear and anti-friction agent in their oil.

Here is an average of all of the oils in the previous chart:

The Torco and Maxum oil contributed the most to pushing the Moly in bike oil vs auto oil higher.

Also, is the Castrol Power 1 a motorcycle oil?

The whole moly thing was discussed here back in 2003:
https://www.fireblades.org/forums/hon...-moly-bad.html
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Last edited by lanbrown; 08-05-2016 at 8:19 PM.
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post #11 of 16 Old 08-05-2016, 8:29 PM
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Re: Clutch problem 954rr

That's not clutch slippage. Run your hand on the top of the tire when you pull the clutch in, it will come to a stop. Don't think you have a problem until you get the bike on the road and rip it WFO through all the gears.

Both my bikes do it. The wheel keeps a certain amount of inertia to keep it spinning for a while, even if you use the toe of your shoe to drag on the tire, it will stop quicker.

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post #12 of 16 Old 08-06-2016, 6:52 AM
 
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Re: Clutch problem 954rr

Just adjust the clutch cable correctly and go take a testride. If it slips then think about doing something to it. All the opinnions that i have read here suggest to use oem clutch plates but i have Barnetts CF kit with stiffer springs and don't have anything bad to say about it....

Last edited by mika_u; 08-06-2016 at 5:24 PM.
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post #13 of 16 Old 08-06-2016, 12:05 PM
 
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Re: Clutch problem 954rr

Who thell assembled that bike? Man, that clutch is working perfect.

1. Do I slip while riding hard on the throttle and it slips? Yes.
2. Do I wait some before I let it have it is to breakdown the oil some. Yes?
3. Do I listen to turtle and oh syn you little slippery pack of plates you, is later for you.
Anday moral of the story is; hammer it a few hundred miles later or break plates or breakdown the oil some. Your choice.

You hold the clutch in and it's in gear, there was momentum on the wheels spinning, the oil still needing to be flung off, the sticky friction alone are no pressure on the plates so they too take time slowing down the wheel. Did the wheel stop in gear with wheel up? Now I'm curious. How did you assemble the pack?

There's a cut side and a round side to the steels. Steel cuts face the pressure plate. If I were replacing a pack of plates on a CBX, that pressure plate enters first so I now face the plates toward the pressure plate.

How are we stacked? I mean, it looks right, but did you take notice on the assembly?
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post #14 of 16 Old 08-06-2016, 1:20 PM
 
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Re: Clutch problem 954rr

You don't have clutch slip - clutch slip is when the clutch doesn't engage/'grip' properly. You have the opposite, therefore it has absoloutely nothing to do with oil (unless you've put glue in the oil, of course).
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post #15 of 16 Old 08-06-2016, 4:45 PM
 
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Re: Clutch problem 954rr

Have you rode it yet?
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