Just bought a CBR929RR, having issues. - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 47 Old 08-08-2016, 12:11 AM Thread Starter
 
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Just bought a CBR929RR, having issues.

Hey guys, I am new to the forums and to the fireblade life! I recently bought a 2000 929, got a pretty good price on it. I just happen to have some problems with it.
It runs, but up until 3k RPM it hesitates and bogs under throttle. If I roll on it is less noticeable than if I go wide open.
The airbox flapper and the EGCV have been deleted. The servo is still in there plugged in.
The spark plugs, oil, filter, fuel, has all been replaced. Fuel pressure regulator is solid (also tried one from a 1993 accord and it ran worse )

I put it in diag mode and I got the following codes:
1,2,7,8,9,11,12,13,14,15,35
which are:
Code:
Loose or poor connection of the MAP sensor vacuum tube
Faulty MAP sensor 

Loose or poor contact on ECT sensor
Open or short circuit in ECT sensor wire
Faulty ECT sensor

Loose or poor contact on TP sensor connector
Open or short circuit in TP sensor wire 
Faulty TP sensor

Loose or poor contact on IAT sensor
Open or short circuit in IAT sensor wire
Faulty IAT sensor

Loose or poor contact on vehicle speed sensor connector
Open or short circuit in vehicle speed sensor connector
Faulty vehicle speed sensor

  Loose or poor contact on No. 1 injector connector 
Open or short circuit in No. 1 injector wire 
Faulty No. 1 injector 
	
Loose or poor contact on No. 2 injector connector
Open or short circuit in No. 2 injector wire
Faulty No. 2_injector

Loose or poor contact on No. 3 injector connector 
Open or short circuit in No. 3 injector wire 
Faulty No. 3 injector	

Loose or poor contact on No. 4 injector connector
Open or short circuit in No. 4 injector wire
 Faulty No. 4 injector

Faulty EGCV and air intake valve servo
I am almost wondering if my ECU is shot. I have read that these bikes have certain issues and the ECU is commonly one of them.
Any suggestions before I light this thing on fire? XD
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post #2 of 47 Old 08-08-2016, 12:24 PM
 
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Re: Just bought a CBR929RR, having issues.

No, no ECU problem if it can set code, start bike. Fallacy one down.
Engineering Delete. A beautiful design is the OEM. So you toss the design out the window and look what the draft sent in.

Are we on the same page yet?

The black art goes something like this. At my air intake or wherever that flapper was placed, I now place a cupped, or a lip over that area so it won't be sucked in. I could run a coke can, cut that out as a strip, place it on the outside of the air filter element and that would close the window of some of the problem of lag. Be cause and effect, it is a lot of air being sucked in without a closed off flap. It was feeding in a linear demand the flapper was giving it. Now it's a sinkhole and you're filling that void first.

Are we on that black art page in the speed of it? Sort of a bernoulli effect in effect?

I'd next remove the ECU, know my ground color is [still] green as Honda's color for ground? Pick up my ohm meter, place the meter in volts or millivolts, know my ground pin of the ECU, hold my (-) test prong there, run my (+) probe across all the pins and let the red probe just ever so lightly piano key them unit the meter shows 'no saved voltage' in any of the ECU's pins. So there will only be a few pins holding E in the capacitors. Piano keying them is to remove the codes present I believe is one way of doing it?

Install the ECU back in, turn the key on, check to see if the codes are cleared? Start bike. The [moving] servo is not locked and can send in analog [many] movements. Since the quick and dirty is to empty the ECU first, assuming the servo is [not] stuck, and the flapper missing sending in [no] data. Do we see that [part] of the loop is removed? Do we see the flapper was not addressed, here comes the daisy chain of codes to that whole loop?

But really, who cares, cover that AC element with cling warp. The wrap stays in place with the sticky side on the pleats. Plus it's being sucked on. It can take the heat off the engine and not become loose and sticky if duct tape was used. There's a sweet spot of square over that intake element. Start small and work your way over that element covering. Lots of combos to choose chasing the void.

Last edited by lanbrown; 08-08-2016 at 2:44 PM.
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post #3 of 47 Old 08-08-2016, 2:25 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Just bought a CBR929RR, having issues.

Oh ok, I get you. You're saying the multiple codes could be all caused by improper flow/operation of the now modified system, and that if I cover parts of the air filter it will help my issues!
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post #4 of 47 Old 08-08-2016, 5:04 PM
 
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Re: Just bought a CBR929RR, having issues.

ive had the flapper deleted and the htev pinned in mid open position since my 954 was at 11.000 miles and it doesnt bog anywhere or throw any codes. i dont know what the issue is, but covering parts of the air filter isnt the solution i assure you.

have you cleared the codes and started from fresh to be sure all that are displayed are current?

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post #5 of 47 Old 08-08-2016, 6:27 PM
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Re: Just bought a CBR929RR, having issues.

The codes need to be cleared before anything further is done. If all of the codes return, then there is something wrong. No matter what one has done in removing some of the emission systems components, they wouldn't impact a TP sensor or the vehicle speed sensor or the injectors.

One possibility, you have a ground issue. I would check the ground plug...I believe in the 929RR it is near the headlight. A bad/poor ground can cause many issues.
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post #6 of 47 Old 08-08-2016, 7:18 PM
 
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Re: Just bought a CBR929RR, having issues.

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Originally Posted by popc0rn View Post
Oh ok, I get you. You're saying the multiple codes could be all caused by improper flow/operation of the now modified system, and that if I cover parts of the air filter it will help my issues!

Pretty much, poppy. So both Ian and Kev mention to clear codes and see who pops up first if any? The ECU can detect input and work those analog numbers going in and even if it codes, the ECU can still run coded, so it's not the ECU as it can run in both analog and digital. We just eliminated the ECU.

So, we want to know the first code set and that more points to the problem, not bring in all his buddies that work together as the loop. As far as air cleaner wrap, lets first find the code. If not, you've got nothing to lose covering or slowing the bernoulli effect. One exhaust may not bog the bike and another pipe might effect the flow to cause a bog. Air cleaner in place? Flapper system removed? Is this WAX actuated, short of looking on the parts page?
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post #7 of 47 Old 08-08-2016, 8:08 PM
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Re: Just bought a CBR929RR, having issues.

Airflow has nothing to do with a throttle position sensor. A TPS can work in a vacuum as all it does is know where the position of the throttle is. So given that a code exists for it, rules airflow out as an issue. That is why the first thing to do is clear the codes and see what comes back and don't even mess with wrapping the air cleaner. Given that the bike was just purchased and it from the sounds of it, had whatever issue prior to being bought, the best solution is to clear the codes as you don't know what someone tried to fix whatever the issue is. They could have been unplugging everything they could to see if it changed anything.

Start from scratch and see what codes.
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post #8 of 47 Old 08-08-2016, 8:40 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Just bought a CBR929RR, having issues.

After resetting the codes now it just stays on when I jump the connector, no fi light or indicator when running but still bogs.
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post #9 of 47 Old 08-08-2016, 9:57 PM
 
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Re: Just bought a CBR929RR, having issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lanbrown View Post
Airflow has nothing to do with a throttle position sensor. A TPS can work in a vacuum as all it does is know where the position of the throttle is.
My problem is, no shop manual, parts pages show so much, and the physical bike is... I am not riding the bike to 'duplicate customer complaint.' So if the parts only work one way, I do not use the battery cable to clear codes. I have a few ECU's hanging around and if you know something called 'flipflop' in the processing kind of nomenclature, a flip can magnetically hold itself via the capacitors used on the motherboard. So via piano-key to empty the capacitors thru the meter for a ground or flop it so it empties, that's all the RAM (volatile) left saved. The bike starts at zero = 0000 in binary speak or ROM. That was that computer trick is remove those variables out of the black box. That's like wiping the hard drive and/or you opened a package to a new ECU an plugged it in brand new like.

How is that page we are landing on? Computer bike 101 I can't make it any easier. The black box only works one way.

IAP = The intake of air is sucking on a drum skin call it, an eardrum call it. That wafer of a drum cover has a wire attached to it. The harder that wafer is being pulled one way, it can send a signal up that wire. When that cylinder's intake valve closes, the suck at the IAP stops and returns to its base position as if the bike was turned off. So it pulls vacuum from a baseline of 14.7 psi. If negative [idle] pull is 8-9 psi, look at the analog range from 9 to 14. So air suck on a wafer can ripple a linear number. Are we on this page? Because now, this code pops up. A method takes over [if]the sensor fails. This area is handled by the digital takeover of the mid to WOT or heavy load range. No IAP needed to run. If the air line is off the sensor, the same method kicks in as if the wire was out of the connector, or the sensor ate itself internally, 3 variables landed on the same method, 4 if you count a connector not connected.

Wire out of connector.
Connector not connected.
Short to ground [itself].
Hose caused it to read in digital [the one number input triggering code).

TPS = The throttle position sensor is like a wall switch rheostat that turns the light bright, or off the light it goes. This too has a method used. This backup, or safe, or fail-safe, or what honda uses as the same nomenclature, those same 3 variable faults to a wire, sensor, or connector not connected. So the TPS does not use vacuum for input purposes. The linear flow of that light you see is a watt change after watt change in the linear. So it sends analog input in a linear fashion at that fly by wire at the grip, or the TPS off the throttle body that is reading the throttle shaft, or that main shaft.

There is no air pressure per say used at that throttle body's TPS. So air pressure at the shaft? You could say that kind of demand pressure is going into the TPS via the shaft in a rheostat? Sure, but no air nipple at the TPS for air assist like the IAP. This should be the wall socket page for this jobber.

IAT = The intake air temp sensor is placed in the airbox stream. There is a rush of air, be it the 4 seasons of temp, this induces a different pressure at the eardrum too. Where cold air would be condensed, the air molecules being closer, there is a faster, more robust demand pull of that condensed air at the wafer. It's cold, so that means more fuel to air ratio. If hot out, the air expands, it takes more vac to pull to equal the cold set, but the vac pulled less, matched or balanced the demand of less fuel, because there is less air on a hot day in the expansion dept. So didn't the air pressure at the sensor match the heat in a way? How about that temp sensor? We seeing a page being developed one needs to be on?

How about if the IAP fails. This method uses a formula. The formula's number is in an octal number, not a decimal number. The abstract still means the same number. So when the IAP fails, 760mmHg is used as a pressure number. Are we on this page?

If the IAT fails, not a pressured number, but a celsius number is used. 30C is the base to the abstract is the base of 760mmHg to the abstract. So each sensor falls into a digital preset for math calc, the analog no longer is being sent in, Huston we have a problem, but problem solved thru method(s).

So, I'm pretty sure I have a 99% handle on the parts, their abstract in their full working analog setting or in a safe, limp, digital setting. The bike only works one way.

Does air flow have anything to do with the TPS? No. Crank speed does. TPS has no vac sensor to determine load. It sets the rpm demand. Does the crank need the TPS? No. Digital takes over in method. Are we on this page of the abstract?

Of course the bike is clear of codes. Of course the pings back and forth to the sensors will show no codes if none of the 3 wires are breached. That's key on, no run. Now, what was the IAP looking for if the key is on only? 14.7 or base number = No codes. WOT happens next we start the bike and 14.7 remains as a digit no hose attached? Are we on this page?

What happens if no codes, AC still happens, for there is for every DC action occurring with key on, AC still pings back and forth, no getting around MAG. This part of the pages says no codes, baseline is fine @ 14.7. When the bike fires up, guess who is going to code first? VAC!

How's this page working out? The bike only works one way, I'm 99% sure of it. If I turn the key on and start it = 100% says it's the shop man you will pay not being 100% sure messing wit day big boys.. not me, the manuals are generic, hello, is this mic on?

Signed,
NOLTTSM (no one listens to the shop manual)
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post #10 of 47 Old 08-08-2016, 10:03 PM
 
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Re: Just bought a CBR929RR, having issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by popc0rn View Post
After resetting the codes now it just stays on when I jump the connector, no fi light or indicator when running but still bogs.
So, when it is not running, no codes? Correct.
So, when it starts, the code sets? Correct.
So, when the dongle is installed, the light goes offandango? Correct.
So, when the bike bogs, are we missing parts off the engineering? Correct.
So, when the parts are back on, the bog clears up? I'll be right back and let you know.

So, did the air hose attach to whom?
So, did the code blink to what number?
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post #11 of 47 Old 08-08-2016, 10:38 PM
 
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Re: Just bought a CBR929RR, having issues.

See if the abstract works?

I have a code, because why?

1. Connector not connected = Breach.
2. Wire out of connector = Breach.
3. Signal out of range = Breached.

A. Connector is not connected as per design = Codes.
B. Wire is not in its proper designed location= Codes.
C. Signal out of range = Codes.

I. Connector = all wires connected as one, flips the light off is the same magnetic wipe of the flipflip held magnetically, the light is either on or off. So you more or less tied all the wires and caused it to flop back.
II. Wire = all those wires run to some other loop to join as one loop. Tie them as one, the simple answer is this last one.
III. Analog = all those inputs WERE many. As soon as a wire, connector, tied as one, it literally means ONE input in >all the time<, not in analog with many numbers send all over the linear of up and down movement. That's why the light goes on, there is digital input. There is a single, out of range input. So even if you matched some sort of number with a resistor and the light turned off? We start the bike, what is the input signal? = Digital still. So even with the light off on that flipflop hack, the code remains, signal out of range = DIGIT IN.

That's code. That's the 3 wire variable. That's how analog is processed in FULL. That is how the process is set to digital and LIMP means it runs in a single backup number the computer binaries to... The bike only works one way.

Air flow is a whole different animal. Show me a pinch of a sync screw making a difference at the manometer/gauges, I'll show you how an air screw reacts to the sync and messes your whole tune, where it's now set at backmarker, or the first one home loading the trailer kind of flow tune qualifier.
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post #12 of 47 Old 08-08-2016, 11:04 PM
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Re: Just bought a CBR929RR, having issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
That's like wiping the hard drive
No it's not. If you wipe a hard drive then nothing is on it. If you wiped an ECU like that, it would have no programming at all. Way back when there were chips that could be replaced on ECU's. Those chips could be erased. Erasing that chip would be like wiping a hard drive.

If you go to your computer that has a single hard drive and you wipe it, what happens after a reboot? It is not like it was when you bought the computer.

Your posts are very hard to read. Sensors are analog, so bringing binary into it is pointless. Sure there are analog inputs in the ECU for the sensors.
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post #13 of 47 Old 08-09-2016, 1:36 AM
 
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Re: Just bought a CBR929RR, having issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lanbrown View Post
No it's not.
Maybe I should have said, you know when you hammer F10 or F9 or whatever and the software says, all files will be lost, do you want a clean drive as if the tower came out of the box, you turned on a laptop for the first time? That kind of code via the F10 or if you can wipe the drive using the command prompt if you knew the codes to write in? That's what I meant as out of the box, you are more or less looking at base ROM and now the computer has all those files ready to go, not corrupted, etc.

Quote:
If you wipe a hard drive then nothing is on it.
Correct. Just back to the software it came with. So if I wipe all the RAM like the photos saved, the videos, all that, I still have the video file but it's empty. I still have the ECU as out of the box, I just wiped the RAM of voltage. That's the analogy.

Quote:
Erasing that chip would be like wiping a hard drive.
You mean flash would be wiping the OE map. But the map is still there. We are not at that low kind of level is wiping the ECU to a brick. We are removing a physical input saved, not a software revamp as if the ECU has an Eprom to wipe and add a new chip? Just think in hardware, not software. Just think RAM is saved in micro size volts and it won't wipe the drive. It's more you think RAM and ROM in the abstract.

Quote:
If you go to your computer that has a single hard drive and you wipe it, what happens after a reboot?
It says, how much space do you want in C: and how much in D:? So did it really wipe the ROM clean and turn it into a non working brick or did the factory who made the chip, you can't get in there and change the truth tables, now can you?

Quote:
It is not like it was when you bought the computer.
Sure it was. You just took it way over your basic screen start for say xp? It says to click on F10 to wipe the drive or clean it up and keep what is on the parts of the RAM you saved? Or the other one says, 'do you want to clean all of your files and start fresh with a new xp/win8/7/8/10 kind of clean empty files ready to fill up again?

Quote:
Your posts are very hard to read. Sensors are analog, so bringing binary into it is pointless. Sure there are analog inputs in the ECU for the sensors.
I could say the same thing as the eprom chip, but to understand binary, to understand flipflop, to understand pinky to thump showing a light being turned on or off, 4 flips equal binary. This is a 21st century bike and you are walking the walk, but have to ask why the bike codes in the flipflop and you don't even know the words you are using as to apply it to something so simple as reading the code pages 3wV's?

That's where it's hard for you to see how simple I make it walk as it talks. It's going to hit you like a ton of bricks soon. I hear reading my stuff 3 times is the charm.
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post #14 of 47 Old 08-09-2016, 1:46 AM
 
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Re: Just bought a CBR929RR, having issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
I hear reading my stuff 3 times is the charm.
four of five times doesnt even help me... i get there is a bit of a language barrier, but i cant even. i appreciate youre trying to help, but saran wrapping the air filter?

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post #15 of 47 Old 08-09-2016, 1:52 AM
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Re: Just bought a CBR929RR, having issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
Correct.
No, you are still wrong. If you wipe the hard drive, there nothing on it. Is it back to how it was from the factory? Yes, if you are talking about the hard drive manufacturer. The hard drive is (generally) not wiped when you buy a computer. it has an OS on it and some other programs.

Quote:
That's where it's hard for you to see how simple I make it walk as it talks. It's going to hit you like a ton of bricks soon. I hear reading my stuff 3 times is the charm.
Umm, no, you are wrong again. Someone can read your posts a million times, when they (your posts) are wrong, they will still be wrong.
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