2017 Blade, seeking more speed - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
Honda FireBlade Discussion of the Honda CBR 900RR, Honda CBR 929RR, Honda CBR 954RR, and Honda CBR 1000RR Motorcycles.

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post #1 of 9 Old 04-18-2018, 9:45 AM Thread Starter
 
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2017 Blade, seeking more speed

So, I've had the new 2017 model for a month or so, and put 500 miles on it. Though I think it has a lot going for it vs previous models, I want more speed.

I have thought about a couple of options:

Option A, Step 1: ($200)
  1. Send my ECU off to Dano Performance for this service, Honda ECU Flash (Honda ECU Flash) ($200)
  2. Keep stock exhaust, modify the ECU with all options provided, minus steering dampener.
  3. My question is, if I do this ECU service, and keep stock exhaust, how does disabling the exhaust valve play into this? I can see myself flashing the ECU that is ideal for stock or aftermarket exhaust, so if I eventually do install an exhaust, ECU is ready and doesn't have to be sent out again.
  4. Are other riders doing the same setup?

If Option A isn't satisfactory, then there is Option B:

Option B, Step 2: ($2100'ish)
  1. Install this package, Honda CBR1000RR ECU Flash, Smog plates and Yoshimura Race Alpha Full system exhaust (Specials) ($1400)
  2. Install Power Commander ($300)
  3. Is there a Dynojet Ignition Module for 2017+ blades? Need one? Can't find out anywhere. ($300?)
  4. Tune bike ($400'ish)

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08 Honda 1000rr, Vance and Hines slip on. Power Commander III.
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post #2 of 9 Old 04-18-2018, 5:32 PM
 
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Re: 2017 Blade, seeking more speed

hello friend,

if i may ask what are you using the bike for, track(straight) or street, i cant imagine needing to go more than 288-300km/hr or are you looking for better acceleration from your 2017....and as a side note it is a damper not dampener....inquiring minds want to know....in the mean time be safe 😎
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post #3 of 9 Old 04-19-2018, 10:21 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 2017 Blade, seeking more speed

I wrote a post earlier on my computer at home. Now that I'm at work, I don't see it. I'm assuming it never made it. Here is another try:

Basically, the 2017 Blade will be my semi-daily commuter bike with @ 40 mile round trips to work. I also do 500-mile weekends hitting the twisties. Love turns and straight-line speed. Track days are a common thing for me and ride both 600cc/1000cc track bikes. The Blade will see the track occasionally to ride it like it's meant to be ridden. Hope it doesn't spoil me too much with my older track bikes.

What I'm looking for in the new 2017 Blade are a better throttle response, more acceleration and smoother deacceleration.

My main concerns are:
  1. When I flash, can I turn off Exhaust Valve, Pair Valve, EVAP and still retain the hardware on the bike without harming it or hindering performance improvements? Would be nice to re-flash to stock if something were to happen while under warranty.
  2. And, if/when I get an aftermarket exhaust and update fuel tables, do I need a Power Commander/Ignition Module still for more necessary fine-tuning?

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Paul Roesner (redwhite929rr)
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08 Honda 1000rr, Vance and Hines slip on. Power Commander III.
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post #4 of 9 Old 04-23-2018, 1:35 AM
 
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Re: 2017 Blade, seeking more speed

more power on a 2017?!! you sure about that?

I would look at what TT riders are doing (not factory teams because that's just not a level playing field) or road racers in general.

You said you wanted: better throttle response, more acceleration and smoother deacceleration. I would 100% start with getting the engine blueprinted as its a mass produced unit. Hand finished engines don't have burr's and rough spots which can cause pre combustion etc. Also balanced cranks and pistons will spin up so much smoother and cause less parasitic drag/counter inertia. I had a blueprinted engine on my 05 600rr and it pushed an extra 20bhp over stock (at the wheel!!!!) with a race exhaust system and stock air filter. You should expect that easily with a 1000cc '17 Blade. Honestly the power delivery was the most noticeable thing though, like smearing a high class hooker in warm honey.

Look at totally de-restricting the flow of gas in and out of the engine, junk all the extra valves and bleeds that are there for emissions/noise regulations. I'm not a fan of power commanders but I suppose they do their job. I have had MUCH better results with Motec ECU's but the cost is exponentially more both for the unit and the setup time (days and days). You can actually get a decent result with a ECU flash from a reputable tuning company that is putting bikes on podiums.

Last is the hardest one to say to any biker, but its the one that will MAKE you money and make your bike faster. Lose weight. Honda have spent hundreds of millions in R&D over the lifetime of the magnificent Fireblade, this includes shaving every gram they can. The force required to move mass is now a battle between that engine and your body. **** it, if I take a poop before I ride on track it would probably save more time than replacing my tail with a carbon unit. Without spending a penny on your bike you could make it faster by weighing less, and all of us could probably lose a pound or 2.


Also kiss goodbye to warranty if you want any of this, Honda would just laugh. However Honda would also help you set all this stuff up if you ask them nicely, I've never found a Honda dealership that wasn't helpful.
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post #5 of 9 Old 04-23-2018, 10:55 AM
 
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Re: 2017 Blade, seeking more speed

You options differ depending if you have regular 17', SP1 or SP2. There's a couple guys developing theirs and consensus is that you don't need Dynojet for this bike as there are so many options built into the ECU but Honda also neutered the US Models.

I also don't agree that it will cause warranty issues as there are Federal laws designed to protect the owner in those cases, the dealer would need to prove that the aftermarket modification is the cause of the failure. It still won't stop them from refusing service (if they wanted) but that's a human-human interaction problem and I suspect that's what Bob meant. If someone were to encounter such a problem that's what the courts are for.

For reference (from what I'm reading on another forum) Danos is claiming that he's developed flashes for regular 17 and SP1. He also claims SP2 but it hasn't been verified. A group of owners developing SP2s are saying that the ECU is very different in programming (different hardware for SP2, not sure about 17/SP1) and they haven't yet been successful.

FWIW- I'm working with a guy developing older flashes. He's working on my SC57 and his 2012 and plans to try to develop other Keihin ECU flashes.
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-My 06 Fireblade Build Thread
-Her 02 CBR600F4i Custom Suspension
-My 07 CRF230F sold
-My 97 XR100
-07 CRF50F son's
-92 CB750 She lets me ride it, Jetted
-13 CRF110F, 01XR50 Daughter's

Because 12,000 RPM makes me feel better
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post #6 of 9 Old 04-23-2018, 10:56 AM
 
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Re: 2017 Blade, seeking more speed

@BreakItBob - tell me more about blueprinting. I didn't know that it was something that can be done with a production engine. How much did it cost? How long did it take? Got any pics?

-My 06 Fireblade Build Thread
-Her 02 CBR600F4i Custom Suspension
-My 07 CRF230F sold
-My 97 XR100
-07 CRF50F son's
-92 CB750 She lets me ride it, Jetted
-13 CRF110F, 01XR50 Daughter's

Because 12,000 RPM makes me feel better
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post #7 of 9 Old 04-23-2018, 2:20 PM
 
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Re: 2017 Blade, seeking more speed

@Redwhite929 , what model '17 do you have? base/SP1 or SP2?

What modes have you experimented with? Throttle response should be pretty smooth and the bike deceptively fast, depending on RPM range, gear while still stock.

I and a couple other SP2 owners are the folks @Jaybird180 mentioned.

We have a good cross section of riders and builds under way, from exhaust only, exhaust/air filter/flash to HRC ECU & Power-up kit dedicated track bike and everything in between.
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post #8 of 9 Old 04-23-2018, 3:55 PM
 
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Re: 2017 Blade, seeking more speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybird180 View Post
@BreakItBob - tell me more about blueprinting. I didn't know that it was something that can be done with a production engine. How much did it cost? How long did it take? Got any pics?
Blueprinting is a lot of money as it is the process of checking and adjusting all tolerances by hand which is a very long process. Typically a mass produced motor will only be accurate to maybe the nearest mm if you're lucky, in some cases manufacturers quality control could be putting out something that's over 2mm in tolerance (GM are ****ers for this apparently). In essence you're trying to make a motor exactly how the millions of 's R&D budget intended. I do concede however that modern day manufacturing techniques and quality control put a 'stock' engine a lot closer to a 'blueprinted' engine. A simple porting and polishing job on a head unit can probably yield a slightly lesser result for a lot less money/time.

Balancing is slightly different as you're major goal is to ensure the balance of moving mass within the engine. As speeds increase an imbalanced weights effect will increase at an exponential rate. All imbalances WILL sap power output. I don't have time to get my whiteboard and marker pens out to draw a vector diagram of this but this:



where the horizontal is actual measured output, vertical would be any parasitic factors such as imbalance and 'vector A' would be the actual work done by the motor. In simplistic terms your motor is working harder than it is perceived to be outputting as vector A is longer than the horizontal.

Now before I get torn to bits on this explanation, PLEASE note that its 19:45, I've just clocked in for a 12 hour night shift and I'm doing this off the top of my head on a work computer without any literature to back up my thinking. If you're going to disagree, be nice about it.

A good example of this is the first set of BMW S1000RR's engines. Whilst they shared many similarities with the 2005 GSXR1000 engine, their level of detail was far beyond which allowed for a substantial power increase. All pistons con rods were matched for weight immediately after production and then 'cold cracked' instead of cut to ensure that they didn't lose any material in the process. I'm not saying that this gave it the monstrous horse power jump but its a great example of how OCD things like blueprinting and balancing are.



Side note...

Would I ever blueprint an engine on a daily bike? no.
Would I ever blueprint an engine on a track bike? no.
Would I ever blueprint an engine on a race bike? probably yes.
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post #9 of 9 Old 04-23-2018, 3:59 PM
 
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Re: 2017 Blade, seeking more speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaybird180 View Post
I also don't agree that it will cause warranty issues as there are Federal laws designed to protect the owner in those cases, the dealer would need to prove that the aftermarket modification is the cause of the failure. It still won't stop them from refusing service (if they wanted) but that's a human-human interaction problem and I suspect that's what Bob meant. If someone were to encounter such a problem that's what the courts are for.
mate you've enlightened me! I had no idea that was the case. Hopefully it will be the same in the UK as well
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