Yet another "no start 954 " post - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 29 Old 06-06-2019, 4:55 PM Thread Starter
 
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Yet another "no start 954 " post

Ive read through all of these forums and am amazed to see how many people have the same problem , yet theres not really a definitive answer for most of them. Ive got the exact same problem with my 2003 954. i stopped for gas one night and it took a couple of flicks of the kill switch to get the pump to prime. then about 20 min later i stopped to use my phone and that was the last time it ran. no start, no fuel pump on, no spark. ive REPLACED the relay for fuel cut off, a new oem ignition, mtested and cleaned every connection on the bike, kill switch looked fine, clutch contacts are fine, fuses are all new, sidestand and neutral switches are good. the little diode in the fuse box is the only thing ive NOT replaced although it tested ok. WHAT THE F*** ELSE COULD IT BE EXCEPT THE ECU? I LOVE THIS BIKE!!! I dont want to part it out or junk it , but i dont need a red and black 375lb paperweight in my garage!! i was literally in tears over the frustration of NOT being able to fix something as loved as y 954, but ive REALLY reached the end of my rope and patience with it... any suggestions would be appreciated. im really bummed over this crap and ive owned 3 900rr in the past and this is the only bike ive enjoyed more than those, but FUUUUUUUU** ME!! im about to meltdown over this issue. the ecu is just a little pricey for it not to be the problem. youd think honda would have a solution for this problem since all of these forums are packed with this EXACT same problem with this particular bike. thats all i have the energy to rant about for a minute....lol....then crying! like i said i really dont want to get rid of it in any way. and im open to any suggestions atp. thank you to whoever made it this far through this sob story.
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post #2 of 29 Old 06-06-2019, 9:51 PM
 
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Re: Yet another "no start 954 " post

What is your FI light doing when you turn on the key?
Have you pulled codes?
bank angle sensor?

Battery fuse? 30 amp

I know it's a boner question, but you're 100% sure you have a good healthy battery?
If there's any doubt at all, replace it. These ecu's won't work properly if there's any issue whatsoever with the battery.
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post #3 of 29 Old 06-07-2019, 5:01 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Yet another "no start 954 " post

My FI light just comes on and stays lit. ive jumped the plug to get the codes and it is just steady lit. back when it quit running, the light5 was flickering , but steady lit, as if there was a short poss. as for the battery, i charged it fully before testing anything or trying to start it. fuses are all new and still good. i was maybe thinking of going back from the start again and check everything again, (yet again), because i had to have missed something, although id bet all i have that everything checked out twice already. atp it would almost be worth it timewise to just buy the ECU and pray. idk. lol its been 5 weeks of screwing with it and waiting for parts to get to this point. im flustered beyond words man! real ****!! thanks for the reply though and im open to suggestions still. be safe!!
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post #4 of 29 Old 06-07-2019, 5:04 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Yet another "no start 954 " post

oops, as for he BAS, ive left it jumpered to avoid the chance of it coming into play down the line here. hopefully that is ok. id be pissed , yet relieved if that were it. lol im knowing its not that easy though....lol
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post #5 of 29 Old 06-07-2019, 5:09 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Yet another "no start 954 " post

i also called a guy on CL who has a 954 for sale and asked if he would let me try his ECU in my bike for $50, hey wouldnt bite. said " id hate for something to damage his ECU when hes trying to sell.. cant say id blame him. ive seen them on ebay for about $150-200 used, but that seems a bit sketchy to have it be a bad one. any thoughts on the used ECU route??
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post #6 of 29 Old 06-07-2019, 9:27 AM
 
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Have you tested the fuel pump to see if its any good ?? It could also be your main ground
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post #7 of 29 Old 06-07-2019, 9:59 AM
 
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Re: Yet another "no start 954 " post

Why would you consider parting it out or junking it when a qualified mechanic could probably fix it in 2 minutes?
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post #8 of 29 Old 06-07-2019, 10:21 AM
 
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Re: Yet another "no start 954 " post

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Originally Posted by MACE_ View Post
Why would you consider parting it out or junking it when a qualified mechanic could probably fix it in 2 minutes?
Are you sandbagging?
What kind of question is that?
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post #9 of 29 Old 06-07-2019, 10:26 AM
 
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Re: Yet another "no start 954 " post

Its an honest one?
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post #10 of 29 Old 06-07-2019, 10:30 AM
 
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Re: Yet another "no start 954 " post

I ride a RC51, but the electronics on our bikes are very similar.
I was looking through the 954 manual, and it mentions a 20amp fuse for the PGM-FI - but I couldn't tell if that was a seperate fuse, or if it's in the sub-fuse box. Anyway, did you check that?
On my bike, if the FI light stays on solid that's a bad sign.

I pulled this from the manual.
Attached Thumbnails
954 MIL light stays on.JPG‎  
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post #11 of 29 Old 06-07-2019, 10:33 AM
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Re: Yet another "no start 954 " post

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Originally Posted by MACE_ View Post
Its an honest one?
Agree. Jason has presented that as an alternative. Whilst perhaps an 'off-the-cuff' remark it does show his level of frustration.

For me though, getting the bike to an experienced tech/mechanic, or contracting a mobile guy to attend is the sensible solution.
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post #12 of 29 Old 06-07-2019, 12:30 PM
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Re: Yet another "no start 954 " post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MACE_ View Post
Why would you consider parting it out or junking it when a qualified mechanic could probably fix it in 2 minutes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jondog9 View Post
Are you sandbagging?
What kind of question is that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MACE_ View Post
Its an honest one?
I can understand the comment, although I have a level of mechanical ability that I feel is on par with or above the average dealer technician, they do have access to resources and experience that us "online" or "back yard" mechanics don't. I'm lucky enough to have worked in the industry as both a tech and a manager, and I can say that Honda was very gracious with the release of information and assistance for its service departments. I'm also lucky enough to still have deep rooted contacts at my local dealer, and am allowed to take home any service manual I need, go through all the tech/service bulletins Honda has, and borrow any special tool to do any job on any Honda motorcycle (provided they didn't have that particular bike in the shop to work on).

I would probably ghost ride a bike down a hill before I brought it to a dealer to fix, but sometimes that's the most reasonable decision based on your skill level, resources available, and time already spent. But, sometimes we (me included) need to stow the ego and get the help required to do a more accurate diagnosis.

The hurdle these days, is that dealers are beginning to refuse to work on bikes that are older, especially ones that have the older, not supported EFI systems as our beloved 900's do. The end of last year there was a 929 at the dealer that had a tremendous stumble coming from a stop. The tech working on it worked with me back in 90's. He had reached the top of the training Honda had, and was a master level tech. He did every type of "running issue" diagnosis that we here would suggest, and the customer spent $100's of dollars and after it was all said and done it went back to the customer with the same issue. It was not cost effective for the customer to continue to have the tech work on it. Sometimes even the best can't fix a deep rooted problem that would take $100's of dollars of dealer time to diagnose.

It's a catch 22 I guess, so you have to look at all the options like cost vs time vs value of the bike. But it is an option.

So I can understand Mace's proposition, but it doesn't mean I like it

The 2 minutes though might be a stretch
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post #13 of 29 Old 06-07-2019, 12:53 PM
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Re: Yet another "no start 954 " post

Gee Ian, I sure don't intend to lock horns with you and I post this with full respect to your forum position and with respect to your work and motorcycling history, AND in furtherance of this most interesting discussion.

I really am at odds with this: ' . . . and the customer spent $100's of dollars and after it was all said and done it went back to the customer with the same issue. It was not cost effective for the customer to continue to have the tech work on it. Sometimes even the best can't fix a deep rooted problem that would take $100's of dollars of dealer time to diagnose.'

There are two reasons grounding my point:

First, I do not believe it is right or responsible that a dealer representing a product should levy a fee for their not being able (competant?) to resolve the problem.

Second, I allude to competency because we as consumers should be able to take for granted that an 'authorised' dealer is one which is equipped with both equipment and knowledge to resolve ANY problem with their product - whether that be bike, car or electrical appliance et al.

As you would agree, a repair is merely an exercise in problem solving. We start with a list of possible contributors to that problem and then proceed to exhaust that list. If the problem remains unresolved, we extend the parameters of the list until we are left with not one part on the bike that has not been checked. That might well be costly, BUT should most definitely result in the flaw being fixed.

Finally, as a dealer and employee of the dealer, I would be highly embarrassed to return a bike/product to a consumer and say: 'Sorry, but we're unable to repair you bike/product.'
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post #14 of 29 Old 06-07-2019, 1:23 PM
 
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Re: Yet another "no start 954 " post

Alas, you misunderstand my quote my friends.
I said "qualified mechanic" that does not imply or refer in any way to a stealership.
Im pretty sure we can all agree on the worst possible place to bring your vehicle would be the dealer....
can we not?
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post #15 of 29 Old 06-07-2019, 2:04 PM
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Re: Yet another "no start 954 " post

Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelrb View Post
Gee Ian, I sure don't intend to lock horns with you and I post this with full respect to your forum position and with respect to your work and motorcycling history, AND in furtherance of this most interesting discussion.

I really am at odds with this: ' . . . and the customer spent $100's of dollars and after it was all said and done it went back to the customer with the same issue. It was not cost effective for the customer to continue to have the tech work on it. Sometimes even the best can't fix a deep rooted problem that would take $100's of dollars of dealer time to diagnose.'

There are two reasons grounding my point:

First, I do not believe it is right or responsible that a dealer representing a product should levy a fee for their not being able (competant?) to resolve the problem.

Second, I allude to competency because we as consumers should be able to take for granted that an 'authorised' dealer is one which is equipped with both equipment and knowledge to resolve ANY problem with their product - whether that be bike, car or electrical appliance et al.

As you would agree, a repair is merely an exercise in problem solving. We start with a list of possible contributors to that problem and then proceed to exhaust that list. If the problem remains unresolved, we extend the parameters of the list until we are left with not one part on the bike that has not been checked. That might well be costly, BUT should most definitely result in the flaw being fixed.

Finally, as a dealer and employee of the dealer, I would be highly embarrassed to return a bike/product to a consumer and say: 'Sorry, but we're unable to repair you bike/product.'
No argument from me Nigel, I'm very open minded and level headed about most things

My story was meant to describe how the market is changing. In 2000 when I was the Service Manager, I implemented a policy that we were not going to work on anything built prior to 1990. Parts were beginning to be discontinued, and the bikes we were seeing were losers for both the customer and the shop. I didn't want to tie up my techs on bikes that really had the likelihood of not being fixed at a reasonable price, or reasonable time frame. That kind of follows my comment about the 929 that the master tech couldn't fix. The bike had cancer (LED light strips all over it, warped brake rotors that pulsated at parking lot speed, an end can that rattled like a baby toy, chrome parts that were peeling, and overall was a gigantic piece of sh!t). The shop had no business working on it, but they did. The customer knows with this type of work (I know it's not right Nigel, but it's the way it is) comes at a premium, even if it doesn't get fixed. Time spent on diagnosis is told to the customer as "actual time" spent, which at like $75 an hour is ridiculous in of itself, but people without any mechanical knowledge would pay it, knowing that the bike might not not even get fixed.

I know it sounds outlandish, but that's how it was, and how it was in the case of that POS 929.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MACE_ View Post
Alas, you misunderstand my quote my friends.
I said "qualified mechanic" that does not imply or refer in any way to a stealership.
Im pretty sure we can all agree on the worst possible place to bring your vehicle would be the dealer....
can we not?
A qualified mechanic is still a fairly general term, but in all honesty, a "technician" at a dealership typically needs to meet a specific higher standard of training and knowledge to work on the name brand it's representing, and gets specific training to do so. At least that's what I required when I ran the shop. The independent shop or "neighbor who's good with his Trans Am" still may not have the resources available to fix a specific problem, although skilled and has experience.

But yes Mace, recommending a dealer to work on your bike is pretty much tabu I will agree. That's why we're here, mostly lol
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