On or off throttle clank/clunk - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 17 Old 10-17-2019, 1:40 AM Thread Starter
 
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On or off throttle clank/clunk

Okay.... I have not torn the bike down to figure this out (Yet...). SO- as descriptive as possible.. maybe?

If I let off the throttle abruptly, pull in the clutch fast, or go from 100% off-throttle to on (not 100% on.. we know how that'd go in 1st gear) I get a strange hesitation, then clunk/clank, and she goes normal. Does the same thing letting off slightly when clutch-less shifting but also using the clutch (rarely do this...). Easiest way I can think to "equate" the sensation is if you have something rolling around in your trunk/truck bed. So from off-throttle to on you have a moment of hesitation, then the "weight"/"load" hits the back with a clunk, then you accelerate fine/normal. Letting off gets a near-immediate thunk like you hit the brakes and your cargo hit the front of the bed. Make any sense for this analogy? Anyway. My initial assumption was to adjust my chain (as it feels almost like excessive.. severely excessive) chain slack being taken up.. but that doesn't even make sense coming off throttle.

2002 CBR 954, about 47,000miles.. original clutch =) SO thoughts? I was thinking maybe the clutch... but I really only use it to start moving from dead-stopped and don't feel any slipping under hard throttle. Ideas would be great! Also going to start tearing through the manual.

Edit: Might be worth mentioning... this problems seems less noticeable at higher rpms. The "smoother" the shift (usually at high-rpm) the less it does it... I'm still thinking clutch-related... but I'm no trans guy by any means.

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"But risks must be taken, because the greatest risk in life is to risk nothing. Only the person who risks is truly free."

Last edited by RRDemon; 10-17-2019 at 1:57 AM.
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post #2 of 17 Old 10-17-2019, 5:04 AM
 
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Re: On or off throttle clank/clunk

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Originally Posted by RRDemon View Post
Okay.... I have not torn the bike down to figure this out (Yet...). SO- as descriptive as possible.. maybe?

If I let off the throttle abruptly, pull in the clutch fast, or go from 100% off-throttle to on (not 100% on.. we know how that'd go in 1st gear) I get a strange hesitation, then clunk/clank, and she goes normal. Does the same thing letting off slightly when clutch-less shifting but also using the clutch (rarely do this...). Easiest way I can think to "equate" the sensation is if you have something rolling around in your trunk/truck bed. So from off-throttle to on you have a moment of hesitation, then the "weight"/"load" hits the back with a clunk, then you accelerate fine/normal. Letting off gets a near-immediate thunk like you hit the brakes and your cargo hit the front of the bed. Make any sense for this analogy? Anyway. My initial assumption was to adjust my chain (as it feels almost like excessive.. severely excessive) chain slack being taken up.. but that doesn't even make sense coming off throttle.

2002 CBR 954, about 47,000miles.. original clutch =) SO thoughts? I was thinking maybe the clutch... but I really only use it to start moving from dead-stopped and don't feel any slipping under hard throttle. Ideas would be great! Also going to start tearing through the manual.

Edit: Might be worth mentioning... this problems seems less noticeable at higher rpms. The "smoother" the shift (usually at high-rpm) the less it does it... I'm still thinking clutch-related... but I'm no trans guy by any means.
Hello RRDemon.

Very intriguing. If I trace the driveline path from Crank to contact patch, looking for wear&tear, I am thinking:

- Clutch springs weak/collapsed
- Dog clearance, surely not
- Slack chain
- Collapsed cush drive
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post #3 of 17 Old 10-17-2019, 5:41 AM
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Re: On or off throttle clank/clunk

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Originally Posted by Duncan893 View Post
. . . - Collapsed cush drive
That's my thoughts also - especially with that mileage. And at higher RPM/speed, the transition is bound to be smoother.

Also, It's a relatively simple process to check and repair/replace.
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post #4 of 17 Old 10-17-2019, 12:14 PM
 
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Re: On or off throttle clank/clunk

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Originally Posted by RRDemon View Post
Okay.... I have not torn the bike down to figure this out (Yet...). SO- as descriptive as possible.. maybe?

If I let off the throttle abruptly, pull in the clutch fast, or go from 100% off-throttle to on (not 100% on.. we know how that'd go in 1st gear) I get a strange hesitation, then clunk/clank, and she goes normal. Does the same thing letting off slightly when clutch-less shifting but also using the clutch (rarely do this...). Easiest way I can think to "equate" the sensation is if you have something rolling around in your trunk/truck bed. So from off-throttle to on you have a moment of hesitation, then the "weight"/"load" hits the back with a clunk, then you accelerate fine/normal. Letting off gets a near-immediate thunk like you hit the brakes and your cargo hit the front of the bed. Make any sense for this analogy? Anyway. My initial assumption was to adjust my chain (as it feels almost like excessive.. severely excessive) chain slack being taken up.. but that doesn't even make sense coming off throttle.

2002 CBR 954, about 47,000miles.. original clutch =) SO thoughts? I was thinking maybe the clutch... but I really only use it to start moving from dead-stopped and don't feel any slipping under hard throttle. Ideas would be great! Also going to start tearing through the manual.

Edit: Might be worth mentioning... this problems seems less noticeable at higher rpms. The "smoother" the shift (usually at high-rpm) the less it does it... I'm still thinking clutch-related... but I'm no trans guy by any means.
Difficult to say from a distance, but could it be (?) a strange thump in torque common with those new fangled Fuel Injected bikes, made worse by a worn/failed component?

My XX is lovely when I am rolling off and rolling on the throttle - as in riding it on the road, smoothly and responsibly.

If, however, at lower rpm, I wack open the throttle, it feels like it has bogged down for a second and them gets going with a bit of a lurch.

On a dyno, it has very clearly lost AFR control. Do I need to say at this point that I have a full aftermarket exhaust.

So, is there any chance that it is an engine torque transient due to a failing electrickery component? ECM fault codes?

The solution is of course a Carburettor'd CBR-RR bike, that only has lashings of silky smooth torque.

[With the added benefit of regular Carb re-fresh work, which is a pleasure to do ].
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post #5 of 17 Old 10-17-2019, 6:58 PM
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Re: On or off throttle clank/clunk

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Originally Posted by Duncan893 View Post
Hello RRDemon.

Very intriguing. If I trace the driveline path from Crank to contact patch, looking for wear&tear, I am thinking:

- Clutch springs weak/collapsed
- Dog clearance, surely not
- Slack chain
- Collapsed cush drive
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigelrb View Post
That's my thoughts also - especially with that mileage. And at higher RPM/speed, the transition is bound to be smoother.

Also, It's a relatively simple process to check and repair/replace.

ME TOO



And check/replace rear wheel bearings, including the one in the sprocket
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post #6 of 17 Old 10-19-2019, 12:34 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: On or off throttle clank/clunk

Thanks for the replies fellas! I can verify chain slack is not an issue (first thing I did was clean/lube/adjust) just to rule it out. It kind of feels like excessive chain slack.. but I do 400 mile chain cleaning and lube and adjust when needed. But it gets checked frequently.

I have to pull the wheels off to get the new hoops mounted anyway so I'll look at wheel bearings and cush drive (honestly hadn't even thought of the cush drive getting beat up for 47k miles...). Might take some time to get to it.. but updates to follow.
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"But risks must be taken, because the greatest risk in life is to risk nothing. Only the person who risks is truly free."
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post #7 of 17 Old 10-19-2019, 12:36 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: On or off throttle clank/clunk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan893 View Post
Hello RRDemon.

Very intriguing. If I trace the driveline path from Crank to contact patch, looking for wear&tear, I am thinking:

- Clutch springs weak/collapsed
- Dog clearance, surely not
- Slack chain
- Collapsed cush drive
Clutch doesn't scare me for springs/plates/disks....
Dog clearance requires tranny components to come out... only mildly panic inducing for me.
Chain is definitely a non-issue (although it is starting to get close to its end)
Cush drive definitely an easy check that I hadn't even considered!
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/**Serenity**\ 2002 Honda CBR954RR Fireblade

"But risks must be taken, because the greatest risk in life is to risk nothing. Only the person who risks is truly free."
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post #8 of 17 Old 10-19-2019, 12:38 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: On or off throttle clank/clunk

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Originally Posted by IanDoohan View Post
ME TOO



And check/replace rear wheel bearings, including the one in the sprocket
Wheel bearing in the rear sprocket?!?!? I've replaced that sprocket a time or two.. or three... or... okay probably a few more than that but I don't remember a bearing... am I just a scrub? Good to see you Dooooohan =) Been a while old friend.
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post #9 of 17 Old 10-19-2019, 12:44 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: On or off throttle clank/clunk

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Originally Posted by Duncan893 View Post
If, however, at lower rpm, I wack open the throttle, it feels like it has bogged down for a second and them gets going with a bit of a lurch.

So, is there any chance that it is an engine torque transient due to a failing electrickery component? ECM fault codes?

Not even opening it fast. Just going from off-throttle to open a bit coaxes the sound out. Most noticeable shifting 1st to 2nd (with or without clutch.. with clutch seems worse?) but with the neutral passthrough that doesn't shock me. On let-off it doesn't always seem to do it, unless I pull the clutch in a bit above idle (lets say 2500rpm or so) or slam the throttle shut (not normal but I tested it out and it provokes the stated noise of doom)

Electrickeery component is also a possibility =) But this "feels" mechanical... still would not dare rule out a failed something with zappy power.
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post #10 of 17 Old 10-19-2019, 6:10 AM
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I think your first job is to just pop the rear wheel off and just check the Cush drive and bearings. Like others have posted, I would guess that’s the problem.
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post #11 of 17 Old 10-19-2019, 9:33 PM
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Re: On or off throttle clank/clunk

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Originally Posted by RRDemon View Post
Wheel bearing in the rear sprocket?!?!? I've replaced that sprocket a time or two.. or three... or... okay probably a few more than that but I don't remember a bearing... am I just a scrub? Good to see you Dooooohan =) Been a while old friend.
LOL "carrier" should have followed sprocket. There is or are bearings in the sprocket carrier. I think the 954 just has one large one like the RC51, the 600RR uses the same carrier but has 2 doubled up bearings. You'll see when you take it off the wheel.
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post #12 of 17 Old 10-23-2019, 5:13 AM
 
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Re: On or off throttle clank/clunk

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Originally Posted by RRDemon View Post
Clutch doesn't scare me for springs/plates/disks....
Dog clearance requires tranny components to come out... only mildly panic inducing for me.
Chain is definitely a non-issue (although it is starting to get close to its end)
Cush drive definitely an easy check that I hadn't even considered!
While you have the rear end up in the air, RRDemon, it might be worthwhile checking the swingarm bearings and rear shock linkage ...... ?
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post #13 of 17 Old 11-08-2019, 3:17 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: On or off throttle clank/clunk

Still haven't got to this to be honest.. sadly riding has taken second stage to life. FML? Really wish I could get out more! Need to look into this problem but at the rate I'm riding it isn't that much of a problem. Is it sad to say I've spent more time at the gym than I have riding??!?!?! Pretty sure that's a yes!

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post #14 of 17 Old 11-08-2019, 3:32 AM
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Re: On or off throttle clank/clunk

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Originally Posted by RRDemon View Post
. . . Is it sad to say I've spent more time at the gym than I have riding??!?!?! Pretty sure that's a yes!
Equal priority for me. I do 5 - 6 mornings per week.

Now have to lose a few kilos to squeeze myself on to the 'shrunken' 2020 Blade.
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post #15 of 17 Old 11-08-2019, 4:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RRDemon View Post
Still haven't got to this to be honest.. sadly riding has taken second stage to life. FML? Really wish I could get out more! Need to look into this problem but at the rate I'm riding it isn't that much of a problem. Is it sad to say I've spent more time at the gym than I have riding??!?!?! Pretty sure that's a yes!
Much the same for me. I’ve rediscovered cycling with my 14 year old son so although I still love my old Blade it does now seem to take second place
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