Velocity Stacks. results of dyno tests - dyno charts added - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 21 Old 04-23-2004, 4:00 AM Thread Starter
 
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Velocity Stacks. results of dyno tests - dyno charts added

Well, I don't have the maps on the PC yet (waiting for the email) but for those that care, my bike posted 137.4 SAE bhp with stock stacks and a 0 map in the PCIIIr with the stacks in, the result was 135.3 SAE bhp.

The stock stacks were even or beter everywhere, except at about 2000 - 4000rpm, were they had approx 1 - 2hp advantage (hardly worth it). The stacks were down by 1hp by the time 5krpm was hit.

Also did a back to back withthe stock and Factory stacks with the PCIIIr plugged in and the 501 (full power Euro) map loaded into the PCIII.

Stock peak - 137.1 SAE bhp.
With V stacks - 133.5 SAE bhp.

So, the conclusion I have drawn is that the V stacks do not do what they claim to do on a stock Australian spec bike. ie - improve hp all the way through the rev range on a stock bike. There is mor einfo I want to bring up, and some interesting finds, but I'll save that for a later post as I kinda need to get going.

Edit - Additional notes. Was using 98 octane Mobil fuel, bike has 4000km with the current oil being Castrol GPS semi synth (in for 3000km) rear tyre was 3psi down and chain is in need of slight adjustment (ie - on the border of being ok and needing adjustment)

Z...

EDIT - Dyno charts in pdf added, also note some of the number I quoted were off (by maybe 0.2hp) but not worth worrying about
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Honda 954 Malota Z.pdf‎ (95.8 KB, 139 views)

You're f%#&king up my Chi...

Last edited by Zeeman; 04-24-2004 at 3:51 AM.
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post #2 of 21 Old 04-23-2004, 4:04 AM
 
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Re: V. Stacks. results of dyno tests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeeman
Well, Id on't have the maps on the PC yet (waiting for the email) but for those that care, my bike posted 137.4 SAE bhp with stock stacks and a 0 map in the PCIIIr with the stacks in, the result was 135.3 SAE bhp.

The stock stacks were even or beter everywhere, except at about 2000 - 4000rpm, were they had approx 1 - 2hp advantage (hardly worth it). The stacks were down by 1hp by the time 5krpm was hit.

Also did a back to back withthe stock and Factory stacks with the PCIIIr plugged in and the 501 (full power Euro) map loaded into the PCIII.

Stock peak - 137.1 SAE bhp.
With V stacks - 133.5 SAE bhp.

So, the conclusion I have drawn is that the V stacks do not do what they claim to do on a stock Australian spec bike. ie - improve hp all the way through the rev range on a stock bike. There is mor einfo I want to bring up, and some interesting finds, but I'll save that for a later post as I kinda need to get going.

Z...

Flapper still in?
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post #3 of 21 Old 04-23-2004, 4:10 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: V. Stacks. results of dyno tests.

flapper out.

Z...

You're f%#&king up my Chi...
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post #4 of 21 Old 04-23-2004, 7:13 AM
 
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Re: Velocity Stacks. results of dyno tests.



thanks for the info, I can now cross the stacks off my must do list

Do unto others, before some prick does it to you!

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post #5 of 21 Old 04-23-2004, 8:00 AM
 
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Re: Velocity Stacks. results of dyno tests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratter


thanks for the info, I can now cross the stacks off my must do list
I agree, I dont think I'll be spending the $250+ for those darn things. (but hey Im glad someone else did)

One of the local racing shops (Omaha) insisted I get the short stacks before getting a custom map, he may be wrong I guess.(but he swore by them) Maybe something is missing?

Thanks for the INFO Zeeeeee

Last edited by roadrunner954; 04-23-2004 at 8:00 AM.
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post #6 of 21 Old 04-23-2004, 8:22 AM
 
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Re: Velocity Stacks. results of dyno tests.

it would have been interesting to see if they made better gain if the bike was mapped to suit them

I know that goes against the claims the manufacturer says, but it would still be interesting to see if they did have potential,

Maybe you could lend them to the sook for testing, as he has the dyno etc, just needs the time, it would be better than paying for someones elses dyno time

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post #7 of 21 Old 04-23-2004, 10:18 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Velocity Stacks. results of dyno tests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ratter
it would have been interesting to see if they made better gain if the bike was mapped to suit them

Funny you should say that... this is actually something I wanted to bring up. The point of the exercise though, was to prove/disprove Factory Pro's claim of increased HP on a stock bike.

HOWEVER - the interesting thing was the a/f ratio (which is not printed on the dyno charts that are getting emailed to me - but anyway, I studied them long enough to convey the message)

The a/f ratio chart with the stock stacks started out at about 15:1, and dropped to about 13.6::1 as the rpms rose to about 9000rpm, before going north again to 14:1+ (zero map)

This also happened with the euro map with the stock stacks.

Enter short stacks..

Guess what? the a/f map was cleaned right up, and very flat, small variation at about the 2k-3krpm range, also small variation above about 10krpm, however between these, the a/f ratio stayed pretty level at about 12.5:1...

This was also the case with the Euro map installed on the PCIIIr. Very interesting, I suspect that the short stacks just may make a difference (in the positive) IF the PCIII is mapped for it (which in this case it wasn't - seeing as the claim was improvements to a stock bike...). I think with a custom map, it just may give oyu a boost. But that will have to wait another week before I do that... coughing up for 2 maps is not easy...

Basically, the short stacks richened the mixture, and flattenned the curve to look like a table top instead of the valley that appears with the stock stacks.

Another not of interest, the original dyno run of 136.3 overlapped with the 137.4 hp graph showed very little variation (the only real difference is the removal of the flapper) the from of the graph was almost identical, except for the odd small gain on the later run. In other words, I don't actually think the flapper does much. Anyway, as soon as I get the dyno graphs, I'll post them..

Z...

You're f%#&king up my Chi...
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post #8 of 21 Old 04-23-2004, 10:27 AM
 
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Re: Velocity Stacks. results of dyno tests.

not an expert but wouldn't the airbox need to be pressurized for the different stacks to have an effect?
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post #9 of 21 Old 04-23-2004, 12:05 PM
 
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Re: Velocity Stacks. results of dyno tests.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phozed
not an expert but wouldn't the airbox need to be pressurized for the different stacks to have an effect?
Heh - not quite. In fact, if the airbox was pressurized, the stacks wouldn't even be necessary.

That reminds me - I can start on that turbo project now that I'll have the stock pipes off the bike from installing the full Sato system.

It's a shame the Factory stacks are a dud, but I'm not all that surprised given how well the stock muffler flows. I'm sure Honda did more than a little testing in that area.

One thing I am curious about is why there aren't aftermarket airboxes available for these bikes. Seems like the '51 guys get lots of choices for those kinds of more extreme mods.

Dan
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post #10 of 21 Old 04-23-2004, 1:49 PM
 
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Re: Velocity Stacks. results of dyno tests.

The length of the stack tunes the intake pressure wave. A properly designed intake system will use the energy from the reversion in intake flow (as the intake valve closes) to create a ram effect when the valve reopens. Very good tuning means in a specific RPM range, you can actually achieve better than atmospheric fill of the cylinder (like "free" ram air). By tuning the runners with different lengths, you will set the bike to be optimum in a chosen range. The differences in head flow for each cylinder means that stacks for each cylinder will need to be a different height for them to all be optimized for the same RPM range. By making them all equally short, at best you make the engine less efficient in the range it was originally tuned. Typically long runners place the best intake efficiency lower in the RPM range.

I suspect the short stacks took at the "tuned" range where the motor shined and left it with no optimum RPM. This would make the fueling more consistent, and would take out HP.

This is why though I spent lots on mods, after talking to the Factory guy and basically being told, "we just shortened them and it worked", I elected to pass.




Last edited by luvtolean; 04-23-2004 at 1:53 PM.
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post #11 of 21 Old 04-23-2004, 2:05 PM
 
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Re: Velocity Stacks. results of dyno tests.

shows what I know Thanks for the explaination guys!
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post #12 of 21 Old 04-24-2004, 3:50 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Velocity Stacks. results of dyno tests.

Added the dyno charts - these include my original break in run, the run with and without stacks plus with and without 501 map in PCIII.

Z...

You're f%#&king up my Chi...
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post #13 of 21 Old 07-27-2007, 2:50 PM
 
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Re: Velocity Stacks. results of dyno tests - dyno charts added

What was it getting before the stacks? All the way up the RPM range? Are the side by side dynos available?

Ride Red
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post #14 of 21 Old 07-27-2007, 4:26 PM
 
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Re: Velocity Stacks. results of dyno tests - dyno charts added

I was wondering because I have heard of situation where the pcIII would drop the map! and the bike would run like crap?

and the map would need to be reloaded and everything would return to normal.

isn't the no map the same as a 0 map?


I also have the short stacks as well as
BMC filter
flapper removed
custom ram-air set up ''electric''
2Bros titanium pipe
powercommander III

and my bike runs quite well

no dyno time yet but it in my future plans

after I take care of my basic maintenance!
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post #15 of 21 Old 07-27-2007, 6:37 PM
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Re: Velocity Stacks. results of dyno tests - dyno charts added

No map just makes it run off the stock "map" in the ECU. The bike is always running on the stock map, the PC map simply edits the signal before it gets to the injection system.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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