200+ HP, Vermuellen 1000RR - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
Honda FireBlade Discussion of the Honda CBR 900RR, Honda CBR 929RR, Honda CBR 954RR, and Honda CBR 1000RR Motorcycles.

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post #1 of 22 Old 05-04-2004, 1:18 PM Thread Starter
 
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200+ HP, Vermuellen 1000RR

Was discussed yesterday, heres the link, interesting stuff. Approx $10K of HRC goodies

And yes, the cell phone will get too hot on this version

Vermullens Bike
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post #2 of 22 Old 05-04-2004, 1:35 PM
 
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Re: 200+ HP, Vermuellen 1000RR

The R1 could beat it

I wonder if Vermuellen has wrecked 3 bikes and a cage in the last 6 months to get that fast
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post #3 of 22 Old 05-04-2004, 1:40 PM
 
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Re: 200+ HP, Vermuellen 1000RR

I would guess the US riders are getting similiar bikes (HP wise)

01 CBR 929
08 Ducati 1098

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post #4 of 22 Old 05-04-2004, 2:27 PM
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Re: 200+ HP, Vermuellen 1000RR

Quote:
Originally Posted by booth23

I wonder if Vermuellen has wrecked 3 bikes and a cage in the last 6 months to get that fast
LMAO!

Is a paradigm worth 20 cents?
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post #5 of 22 Old 05-04-2004, 2:52 PM
 
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Re: 200+ HP, Vermuellen 1000RR

Quote:
Originally Posted by fl-929
I would guess the US riders are getting similiar bikes (HP wise)
Not exactly. Ten Kato builds the motors for their own team, kinda like Erion did with the 929s. I don't expect Ten Kato to be giving out free technology any time soon.

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post #6 of 22 Old 05-04-2004, 2:53 PM
 
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Re: 200+ HP, Vermuellen 1000RR

It's not free, but he says he'll sell you one if you're not competing against him in a series.




Last edited by luvtolean; 05-04-2004 at 2:53 PM.
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post #7 of 22 Old 05-04-2004, 2:57 PM
 
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Re: 200+ HP, Vermuellen 1000RR

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Originally Posted by luvtolean
It's not free, but he says he'll sell you one if you're not competing against him in a series.
Do you REALLY think you'll be getting the real deal?
I mean the lastest version. I highly doubt it.

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post #8 of 22 Old 05-04-2004, 3:02 PM
 
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Re: 200+ HP, Vermuellen 1000RR





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post #9 of 22 Old 05-04-2004, 3:10 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 200+ HP, Vermuellen 1000RR

So what's been done? Not a lot if you believe Ronald Ten Kate - so far.

"We use the HRC kit pistons, HRC cams and HRC valve kit. The crankshaft and rods are standard, as is the radiator and clutch. We'll fit a slipper clutch from Misano onwards.

"We also use the HRC close-ratio gearbox and HRC ECU." ---about $10-$15K(I have the price list--parts are still hard to get unless youre a Pro)

The drawback for a privateer is that the HRC bits are hideously expensive,

"We're running the standard radiator, standard clutch, and most of the parts are bolt-on bits anyone can buy.

"We use some of the HRC kit parts, but many of parts we make ourselves."

Vermeulen let slip in one of the trackside interviews that he'd had quite a shock adapting to the extra power of a Superbike after his CBR600RR Supersport bike of 2003. When asked about the difference, he mentioned the figure of 200 horsepower.

"Surely that's got to be at the crank?" I questioned Ronald Ten Kate.

He smiled.

"Let's just say it's got more than 200 horsepower - and that's at the rear wheel."

Ronald wouldn't divulge the compression ratio, or the offset the team settled on for the triple clamps Chris used at the Island, but he was pretty open about everything else.

"We use the HRC kit pistons, HRC cams and HRC valve kit. The crankshaft and rods are standard, as is the radiator and clutch. We'll fit a slipper clutch from Misano onwards.

"We also use the HRC close-ratio gearbox and HRC ECU."

The drawback for a privateer is that the HRC bits are hideously expensive, as privateers who raced RC30s, RC45s and VTR SP1s will attest to. However, if the HRC stamp is on the part you're assured that it will work. As for those HRC prices, have a look at the table on page 61.

The rest of the Vermeulen Blade runs pretty much off-the-shelf aftermarket parts.

The exhaust system is a titanium Arrow race system, wheels are Marchesini, steering damper is WP, and the rear shock is a fully-adjustable WP unit. All items that you can buy for your own CBR1000RR.

The front suspension is also WP, but don't expect to be able to buy a set of similar forks. Just as you won't be able to buy a set of the Ohlins forks on the front of a factory MotoGP bike.

With the forks come a range of WP triple clamps, which allow the team to fine tune trail by altering the offset - more offset means less trail, and it's one thing Kor changed during sessions to give Chris better feel at the front.

The brake rotors on the Ten Kate CBR1000RR are from Braking, but are of the new 'bat wing' design rather than the commercially available 'petal' discs.

Rounding out the mods are the Brembo radial-mount calipers up front, which carry SBS pads.

And that's about it. Nothing special, but a 1000cc sportsbike with some carefully-matched bolt-on parts that took a 23-year-old Aussie to the round 'win' at Phillip Island and fourth place in the championship.
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post #10 of 22 Old 05-04-2004, 3:12 PM
 
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Re: 200+ HP, Vermuellen 1000RR

I don't believe him...even a little.

What he's not saying is what you can do with a motor build and stock parts. And that's a hell of a lot if you're a smart guy with a shop and some time.




Last edited by luvtolean; 05-04-2004 at 3:13 PM.
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post #11 of 22 Old 05-04-2004, 4:19 PM
 
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Re: 200+ HP, Vermuellen 1000RR

Quote:
Originally Posted by luvtolean
I don't believe him...even a little.

What he's not saying is what you can do with a motor build and stock parts. And that's a hell of a lot if you're a smart guy with a shop and some time.
My point exactly!
This is the best line of all,

"We use some of the HRC kit parts, but many of parts we make ourselves."


No st!t sherlock!

Ride Red

Last edited by nedro; 05-04-2004 at 4:20 PM. Reason: to buy a vowel
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post #12 of 22 Old 05-04-2004, 5:18 PM
 
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Re: 200+ HP, Vermuellen 1000RR

Yes, but I believe he may give other riders the good bits he makes. I've worked with guys who do AMA bikes, and the stuff they do for other people can be very good.

Here's what I was referring to with my earlier comments Ned:

Ten kate is in the business of developing, then building, racing motorcycles. And selling the parts that go with them.

When Broc Parkes recorded a stratospheric 293km/h on his Ten Kate CBR600RR he showed just what a fully-developed Ten Kate bike will do. That's right - 293km/h top speed into Turn One at Phillip Island on a 600 Supersport bike!

The yellow CBR600RRs of both Parkes and Muggeridge were regularly 15km/h faster than the rest of the 600 field.

Ronald Ten Kate knows where the secret to that performance lies, as his grin when I asked him about cylinder-head mods showed.

"We have to have some secrets," he explained.

That probably also explains why the 45 CBR600RRs Ten Kate built last season found homes everywhere except in the World Supersport Championship.

"We build bikes for people to race in their national championships, but we won't build them for other teams in this series."




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post #13 of 22 Old 05-04-2004, 5:36 PM
 
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Re: 200+ HP, Vermuellen 1000RR

I guess I just don't know where Boomer is getting the "$10K worth of HRC goodies". I read the linked article and it sounds like about 50K worth of HRC goodies (ever price a set of HRC Cams or Pistons?) and probably double that in custom fabbed stuff by Kate's race shop, before you even get to the setup and spares. My RC30 had nearly 60K worth of HRC stuff on it and I was being motored big time by anything that had "Factory" associated with it even though the same people built mine. Regionally, it was a different matter, but once you bellied up to Commonwealth, Two Brothers or Honda Britain, it was a very small pond populated by some heavy hitters. There just isn't any way to purchase the depth of a WSB or WSS effort even if you have the money. The factories only give the "good stuff" to the guys that can run with them as a privateer (only about 5 teams worldwide). That kind of support is earned, not purchased.
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post #14 of 22 Old 05-04-2004, 6:34 PM
 
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Re: 200+ HP, Vermuellen 1000RR

Being far from expert in these things here's what a fanatic bench-racer has heard on this side of the pond.

MCN or someone told that they only got 1000RR like late January or something, way later than for example HRC USA. They were for example running stock Tokiko front calibers in the final preseason tests (Eurosport showed a report on the tests). I don't think they are yet running that much trick parts over what HRC kit gives you, Vermeulen said in an interview they got the bikes with HRC stuff fitted, and got something like 195 on the wheel and were hoping to get another 10+ or so with their own magic. (I have this in print somewhere)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 929Boomer
The rest of the Vermeulen Blade runs pretty much off-the-shelf aftermarket parts.
Yep, he is still waiting for same (priced 900 Euros) STM Evolutione Slipper clutch that I am. Should come out in two weeks has been the story for last 2 months. Why they do not get trick HRC parts (clutch, swingarm) that HRC USA and HM Plant Honda in BSB get, I have no idea.

As for Ten Kate 600's, the "customer" versions get something like 138-140 on the wheel, there's a local team running Supersport European Championship with lot's of Ten Kate parts (though not whole treatment I'm told). Supposedly Ten Kate engine is very reliable and only requires rebuild after every 1600 miles. By looking at Ten Kate 600RR price list, something like 30-40 KEur get's a pretty decent starter package.
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post #15 of 22 Old 05-04-2004, 9:36 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 200+ HP, Vermuellen 1000RR

Quote:
Originally Posted by abtech
I guess I just don't know where Boomer is getting the "$10K worth of HRC goodies". I read the linked article and it sounds like about 50K worth of HRC goodies (ever price a set of HRC Cams or Pistons?) .
The power up kit 2 which includes the pistons, misc is somewheres around $5K(Ill get the price list later), the Cams are around $1,500, the close ratio tranny was approx $3,500. The slipper clutch is $1,600. I have No idea about the "custom" stuff---just trying to help, Ill check my price list tonight (if I still have it)
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