CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 18 Old 06-17-2004, 8:19 PM Thread Starter
 
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CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

I'm new to the forum here.. so I'll start by saying hello and give my compliments to the site..

I just purchased a CBR1000RR and need to set/tune the suspension.. It's been a while since I've set up suspension, so I've been searching around online for the best method/guidelines (mainly on the initial sag settings).. I seem to keep finding different answers for sag settings with every article/site I come across.. So far I've come across the following most common instructions/guidelines for sag:

1.) 25%-30% of overall suspension travel
--which for the 1000RR would be; front:~29-35mm & rear:~33-40mm

2.) 1/3rd of overall suspension travel
--which for the 1000RR would be; front: ~39.8mm & rear: 44.9mm

3.) Front:~34mm-38mm & Rear:~26mm-32mm
--(now with rear sag being less than front)

4.) 25-35mm with both front and rear being the same..


I'm not sure if I'm splitting hairs here, but I'm basically looking for the best method/guideline for setting the sag on my 1000RR.. Any experience/input with the 1000RR (or in general) would be greatly appreciated..
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post #2 of 18 Old 06-17-2004, 10:02 PM
 
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Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

and to the .org

I'd be interested in any responses as well.

Someone, I think it was Chain, posted this link not that long ago about suspension setup, quick search and I couldn't find the post.
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0006_susp/
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post #3 of 18 Old 06-18-2004, 2:34 AM
 
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Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

This is what i use, gives an explanation of how set sag and what road / race sag should be.
Attached Files
File Type: doc Suspension Sag Guide.doc‎ (55.0 KB, 423 views)
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post #4 of 18 Old 06-18-2004, 3:43 AM
 
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Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

Straight from HRC on suspension!

http://world.honda.com/HRC/tech/result/all_s02.html

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post #5 of 18 Old 06-18-2004, 4:33 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

Thanks for the detailed info/feedback.. guess there's ultimately going to be some "grey area" with respect to the "best" settings..

--Found the following guidelines for Sag Settings on the Race Tech website:

Street Bikes ===> 28-33% Susp Travel = 30-35mm Front and Rear
Road Race ====> 23-27% Susp Travel = 25-30mm Front and Rear


--Gonna see if I can't find a happy medium and get the settings squared away tonight.. Seems like it makes sense to increase the sag a bit up front to help keep the front wheel planted exiting corners on the throttle.. --I'm hoping the 1000RR will have stiff enough springs for proper sag at ~190lbs.. Seem to recall Honda having a trend of using softer fork springs in the past.. Anyway, will find out tonight.. Thanks again..
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post #6 of 18 Old 06-19-2004, 10:29 AM
 
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Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

Unfortunately Honda has done it again. At 150 pounds I have a hard time getting correct sag. 14 turns on the forks. Soft springs


My guidelines for sag are about 32-35 front and 26-30 rear. I am using the #2 position on the shock. (sorry,I was, I have a penske now).

Ernie
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post #7 of 18 Old 06-20-2004, 8:32 AM
 
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Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

The front springs are not necessarily soft just because the sag is higher than what has been traditionally considered normal. Remember, PRELOAD ONLY ADJUSTS RIDE HEIGHT, NOT SPRING STIFFNESS. The 1000RR (and others I've heard) have been designed with higher front sag in order to help keep the front end planted which allows better control and faster lap times. I believe the front springs are .90 kg/mm but that would have to be confirmed. What I have confirmed is that the front does not bottom out with me on it under the heaviest braking done at Road America last week. The front preload is set at 14 turns in (or 2 turns less than max), the rear preload is on the 3rd from softest, damping settings are all stock.

Overall the stock suspension worked great for my scrawny 155lb frame (without gear). That's not to say riders over 190 lbs or so won't need to change out the springs however.
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post #8 of 18 Old 06-20-2004, 9:04 AM
 
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Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

Normally honda have been using a spring approx .78 kg which is too light for most riders, this may not be the case with the 1000 but I'm sure the 929 and 954 where somewhere around this figure, most average guys need .90 or .95's to get things correct

Do unto others, before some prick does it to you!

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post #9 of 18 Old 06-20-2004, 10:19 AM
 
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Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

Stock preload setting gave me a 1" sag reading (front) and I'm big as a house.
And I'm a half turn out from stock on comp. so far, still tweaking. 3 times the front has slid on me (but I'll start a new thread rather than hijack).

Needed #9 in the rear setting to get it.

Last edited by Smitty929RR; 06-20-2004 at 10:20 AM.
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post #10 of 18 Old 06-20-2004, 11:10 AM
 
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Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by bidwell
The front springs are not necessarily soft just because the sag is higher than what has been traditionally considered normal. Remember, PRELOAD ONLY ADJUSTS RIDE HEIGHT, NOT SPRING STIFFNESS. The 1000RR (and others I've heard) have been designed with higher front sag in order to help keep the front end planted which allows better control and faster lap times. I believe the front springs are .90 kg/mm but that would have to be confirmed. What I have confirmed is that the front does not bottom out with me on it under the heaviest braking done at Road America last week. The front preload is set at 14 turns in (or 2 turns less than max), the rear preload is on the 3rd from softest, damping settings are all stock.

Overall the stock suspension worked great for my scrawny 155lb frame (without gear). That's not to say riders over 190 lbs or so won't need to change out the springs however.
The myth that Honda uses softer springs to keep the front end down is just that, a myth. The whole point of suspension is travel. If your front springs are so soft that you lose a full inch of travel, you effectively reduce the bikes response to braking and road variation by 20%. That is a huge amount. Honda uses soft springs as do all bike manufacturers. The front springs are probably high .7 or low .8. They are certainly not .9.

Reggie Pridmore says he is bottoming out and getting the front end to skip with stock springs. Of course he is a few pounds heavier than 150.

Ernie
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post #11 of 18 Old 06-20-2004, 11:43 AM
 
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Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie
The myth that Honda uses softer springs to keep the front end down is just that, a myth. The whole point of suspension is travel. If your front springs are so soft that you lose a full inch of travel, you effectively reduce the bikes response to braking and road variation by 20%. That is a huge amount. Honda uses soft springs as do all bike manufacturers. The front springs are probably high .7 or low .8. They are certainly not .9.

Reggie Pridmore says he is bottoming out and getting the front end to skip with stock springs. Of course he is a few pounds heavier than 150.

Ernie
I doubt they're between .7 and .8 only because the 600RR comes with .81s as per the Race tech website. The .90 figure came from someone that had his forks done by Dan Kyle and the stockers were supposedly measured, it was on one of the 1000RR boards (maybe even this one).

Re your statement on suspension travel a few things should be pointed out. 1) More sag does not keep the front end down, it keeps the front wheel in contact with the ground for more control. 2) You are not losing one inch of travel by having more sag, suspension travel works both ways: it extends as well as compresses. Sag only defines how much travel is used while sitting in your garage, not under dynamic road or track conditions. 3) It should also be pointed out that with stock springs I'm getting about 40mm of static sag, that's only about 5mm more than the "rule of thumb" so often quoted.

That being said there's no question Honda should have used stiffer front springs, it would have fit a broader range of riders. I would be willing to bet most are heavier than me, it almost seems like the rates were chosen based on an average weight of about 130lbs.
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post #12 of 18 Old 06-21-2004, 1:54 AM
 
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Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

I've just purchased a CBR1000RR and am having a little trouble trying to get the suspensions set for the road.

I weigh 185, that's about 85kgs and ride reasonably hard. The roads around my way are a bit on the rough side. I round the rear suspension to be too firm. I felt every little bump and was often kicked from the seat. The bike still held straight though. I've started decreasing the compression damping on the rear. I'm now down to pos 6. I also decreased the spring preload 1 notch to pos 3.

For the front I found it soft. Especially under brakes. At the moment I've just upped the preload by 1 1/2 turns from std. I'm going to try uping the compression damping. I don't want to get too much jarring from the front.

Hope someone can assist.
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post #13 of 18 Old 06-21-2004, 6:50 AM
 
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Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by John1000RR
I've just purchased a CBR1000RR and am having a little trouble trying to get the suspensions set for the road.

I weigh 185, that's about 85kgs and ride reasonably hard. The roads around my way are a bit on the rough side. I round the rear suspension to be too firm. I felt every little bump and was often kicked from the seat. The bike still held straight though. I've started decreasing the compression damping on the rear. I'm now down to pos 6. I also decreased the spring preload 1 notch to pos 3.

For the front I found it soft. Especially under brakes. At the moment I've just upped the preload by 1 1/2 turns from std. I'm going to try uping the compression damping. I don't want to get too much jarring from the front.

Hope someone can assist.
Try max preload in the front, for the road you should be fine. If not, the front springs will have to be changed to something stiffer. The rest of the changes you made appear to be going in the right direction.
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post #14 of 18 Old 06-22-2004, 12:16 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

--The 1000RR definitely has the "soft" spring trend.. At ~190lbs (without gear), could only get down to ~45mm in the front with pre-load maxed.. the rear seems to have plenty of adjustment, so I actually backed off pre-load (to pos 3) on the rear to ballance out the front a bit.. wound up with front: ~45mm and rear: ~39mm.. --Seemed to work "ok" over the weekend as I was tinkering with the dampening setings.. But looks like a set of springs will be added to the to-do list..
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post #15 of 18 Old 06-22-2004, 12:45 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: CBR1000RR Suspension/Sag Settings

Quote:
Originally Posted by John1000RR
I've just purchased a CBR1000RR and am having a little trouble trying to get the suspensions set for the road.

I weigh 185, that's about 85kgs and ride reasonably hard. The roads around my way are a bit on the rough side. I round the rear suspension to be too firm. I felt every little bump and was often kicked from the seat. The bike still held straight though. I've started decreasing the compression damping on the rear. I'm now down to pos 6. I also decreased the spring preload 1 notch to pos 3.

For the front I found it soft. Especially under brakes. At the moment I've just upped the preload by 1 1/2 turns from std. I'm going to try uping the compression damping. I don't want to get too much jarring from the front.

Hope someone can assist.
--One thing I've noticed is that sometimes a lack of rebound dampening can create the feeling of a stiff/firm ride.. --as the suspension reacts to the "bump" it compresses to a degree but can transition to the chassis a bit (depending on "bump" size), so you'll have a bit of upward motion.. but within that instant, if there is a lack of rebound dampening the suspension/spring will begin to expand too quickly, actually magnifying the "bump" in a way..

--Just something I've noticed in the past, and actually this weekend as I was tinkering with my 1000RR's suspension..
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