954RR Stripped Treads - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 23 Old 06-21-2004, 9:59 PM Thread Starter
 
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954RR Stripped Treads

Folks, need your suggestions.
I somehow managed to strip the threads on the right side engine mount while installing Lightning Performance frame sliders. I can only guess that the mounting bolt was too short and/or slider collar too long, since the bolt stripped at 25 ft-lbs. Spec is 29 ft-lbs. Bike is '03 954RR with 600 miles on the odometer... Shop is disinterested in supporting this failure.
Can the engine be rotated down/forward in the frame by removing the upper two engine mounting bolts, so that I can insert a Timesert or Helicoil? Any other advice or fixes?
Bill C., Houston
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post #2 of 23 Old 06-21-2004, 11:10 PM
 
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Re: 954RR Stripped Treads

Hang in there Bill. I'm sure one of the gurus will read this and hook you right up. Sorry I don't know enough to help you out myself.

I came here to chew bubble gum and to kick some ass...and I'm all out of bubble gum.
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post #3 of 23 Old 06-21-2004, 11:48 PM
 
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Re: 954RR Stripped Treads

Quote:
Originally Posted by crei6845
Folks, need your suggestions.
I somehow managed to strip the threads on the right side engine mount while installing Lightning Performance frame sliders. I can only guess that the mounting bolt was too short and/or slider collar too long, since the bolt stripped at 25 ft-lbs. Spec is 29 ft-lbs. Bike is '03 954RR with 600 miles on the odometer... Shop is disinterested in supporting this failure.
Can the engine be rotated down/forward in the frame by removing the upper two engine mounting bolts, so that I can insert a Timesert or Helicoil? Any other advice or fixes?
Bill C., Houston
This is ridiculous. I did the EXACT same thing. I tried to put lightning performance sliders on my 03 954 (which I've since wrecked, got a deposit on a 1000rr). As soon as I torqued them the threads stripped. The problem was exactly as you said; the spacers are too big and bolts too short. The bold only threaded about 1/4 inch into the mounts. I brought my bike to a machinist who was able to bore the holes and insert heli-coils without dropping the engine. Then I put the original bolts back. The shop where I bought the kit refunded the cost but I've lost about a hundred dollars in the machine shop.

And then there's this asshole...
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post #4 of 23 Old 06-22-2004, 12:19 AM
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Re: 954RR Stripped Treads

Did you spin the bolt free? like to the point where you pull it out and it gives the gift of Al. fingernail clippings?

If not I would try to fit the OE's back in - assuming there is enough thread in the mount beyond the original point to support the bolt torque (don't use a clicker style wrench for install, use an indicator and keep a close eye on what it's doing as you approach torque). That would at least get you rolling in the interim.


Were they just the regular lathed nylon bits? are you sure you were using the correct length bolt on the correct side? how old is the wrench? indicator or clicker style? (sorry, have to ask )
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post #5 of 23 Old 06-22-2004, 1:35 PM
 
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Re: 954RR Stripped Treads

I did the exact same thing, and realized that the bolts are different lengths, and I put the short one in the long side and stripped a 1/4". I tried to re tap it, didn't work. Tried a couple of things, but it kept coming loose. In the end I took it to the shop and all they did was put in a slightly larger bolt, and it worked....it's still working after 8 months....solid.

Not the fix I would have preferred, but it does work.
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post #6 of 23 Old 06-22-2004, 3:23 PM
 
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Re: 954RR Stripped Treads

Hey Bill, I'm not sure what shop you talked to that didn't want to mess with it, but if you are interested, I can recommend an excellent mechanic to help you out.

-Pete (Houston)
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post #7 of 23 Old 06-22-2004, 4:16 PM
 
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Re: 954RR Stripped Treads

Quote:
Originally Posted by crei6845
Folks, need your suggestions.
I somehow managed to strip the threads on the right side engine mount while installing Lightning Performance frame sliders. I can only guess that the mounting bolt was too short and/or slider collar too long, since the bolt stripped at 25 ft-lbs. Spec is 29 ft-lbs. Bike is '03 954RR with 600 miles on the odometer... Shop is disinterested in supporting this failure.
Can the engine be rotated down/forward in the frame by removing the upper two engine mounting bolts, so that I can insert a Timesert or Helicoil? Any other advice or fixes?
Bill C., Houston
mate have u striped it completly???send a few pics
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post #8 of 23 Old 06-22-2004, 9:57 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 954RR Stripped Treads

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeStrangeGuy
Did you spin the bolt free? like to the point where you pull it out and it gives the gift of Al. fingernail clippings?

If not I would try to fit the OE's back in - assuming there is enough thread in the mount beyond the original point to support the bolt torque (don't use a clicker style wrench for install, use an indicator and keep a close eye on what it's doing as you approach torque). That would at least get you rolling in the interim.


Were they just the regular lathed nylon bits? are you sure you were using the correct length bolt on the correct side? how old is the wrench? indicator or clicker style? (sorry, have to ask )
Rocket/Phobiaphobe/jbench/Pete/gman80:
Thanks for your all's recommendations. Phobiaphobe, sorry to hear that you got 'screwed' too by the same sliders. I guess that my best response to you all is to avoid Lightning products.
I did refit the OEM bolt on the right side, and very gently tightened well under spec torque for the time being.
I dropped by Stubbs Cycle in Houston where I bought the bike, and showed them the problem bolt/slider. After comparing them to a proper set of Vortex sliders, it was obvious that the slider for the right side was not properly machined (shank too long - identical to the left side), compounded by a bolt that was too short. The consequence was that I stripped off about 3/8" of good thread on the right side boss on the head. BTW, I used the correct (longest) bolt on the right (stripped) side, and the torque wrench is a new Sears low-range 3/8" clicker torque wrench.
The mechanic suggested that he would chase the remaining threads with a bottoming tap, source some new properly machined sliders (LP, Vortex, Shogun), and insert a longer bolt to maximize grip on the remaining threads. This is the shop I referred to as disinterested in my problem, but once they saw the evidence, and fully understood that I didn't fumble, we made some progress.
I don't accept this as a permanent fix, but if successful, I may end up living with it, at least until I have a reason to pull the head / drop the engine.
Bill C.
PS - any strong recommendations on the replacement sliders I should have them source? Pete, who did you have in mind in Houston? I usually depend on and thoroughly trust Kevin Stasny in Katy, TX...
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post #9 of 23 Old 06-22-2004, 10:03 PM
 
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Re: 954RR Stripped Treads

Intuitive! Well, at least I am happy with them, as are a fair number of other .org members.

edit: beware, this brand also has differing bolt lengths - make sure you get'em right. And no, I don't remember which side which bolt goes on.

Last edited by Bacchus; 06-22-2004 at 10:05 PM.
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post #10 of 23 Old 06-22-2004, 10:09 PM
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Re: 954RR Stripped Treads

Ditto what Bacchy said. Intuitive sliders work well (tested them myself!). Just make sure you install them according to the instructions as there is a left and right side bolt and slider.

Good luck...

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post #11 of 23 Old 06-22-2004, 11:06 PM
 
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Re: 954RR Stripped Treads

Quote:
Originally Posted by crei6845
Folks, need your suggestions.
I somehow managed to strip the threads on the right side engine mount while installing Lightning Performance frame sliders. I can only guess that the mounting bolt was too short and/or slider collar too long, since the bolt stripped at 25 ft-lbs. Spec is 29 ft-lbs. Bike is '03 954RR with 600 miles on the odometer... Shop is disinterested in supporting this failure.
Can the engine be rotated down/forward in the frame by removing the upper two engine mounting bolts, so that I can insert a Timesert or Helicoil? Any other advice or fixes?
Bill C., Houston
I'm no guru, but I did take the motor out of a R6. The motor should tilt to add a helicoil. You may have to loosen the large to get the motor to tilt. That is how we removed the R6 motor. Hopefully that helps.
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post #12 of 23 Old 06-22-2004, 11:15 PM
 
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Re: 954RR Stripped Treads

Was your engine warm when you installed them Sounds like you used the wrong bolt for the wrong side... Im sure you can actualy just rethread the whole using a heli coil set up but to get a perfect job i myself would just lower the engine and do it right the first time. And no you can not just lean the engine forward Clean do not do any thread repair with a warm engine block

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Last edited by crazycuRRie; 06-22-2004 at 11:16 PM.
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post #13 of 23 Old 06-22-2004, 11:55 PM
 
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Re: 954RR Stripped Treads

The thread you stripped out is a 8.0 mm x 1.25 pitch.Your best bet is to buy a ** HELI COIL ** kit to match that thread, Kit will have a drill with it and a TAP , and an installation tool with it / The Kit's normally come with THREE different lenght's of HELI COIL'S to suit what you need as far as length goes.Then all you need is a Steady hand to drill out the Damaged thread / Tap the hole and install the HELI - COIL. Use LOCTITE # 271 on the Od of the Heli Coil when you install it , And when it goes in Make sure that the last Heli Coil thread ends just below the surface of the hole. Or better yet Buy A **** KEY INSERT ** Kit they are more solid because they are held in place buy 4 small hardened steel key's that you drive into place after the insert is installed. Hope this Helps

Last edited by Machinist; 06-23-2004 at 8:13 PM.
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post #14 of 23 Old 06-23-2004, 7:47 AM
 
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Re: 954RR Stripped Treads

Bill, just my opinion, but stay the hell away from Stubbs. I won't go too deep into why, but I could provide a LONG list of references that is enough to make you cringe from just the mention of their name. It was enough to keep me away forever when they tried to sell me a crashed VFR800 that they claimed had never been down.

I don't think I know of Kevin Stasny. What's the name of his shop?

The guy I highly suggest is Andy Marcer, the owner of Metric Motorcycles. His number is 713-334-8030. He has a small, hole-in-the-wall shop off of 59, just west of Chimney Rock, 5823 Star Lane, right behind Houston Kawasaki. If you do call him, make sure to tell him I sent you.
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post #15 of 23 Old 06-23-2004, 8:06 AM
 
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Re: 954RR Stripped Treads

BTW, feel free to e-mail me at [email protected] if you have anymore Houston-specific questions or anything.
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