Need help w/ Lemon Law process - anyone been through it? - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 14 Old 06-23-2004, 2:17 PM Thread Starter
 
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Need help w/ Lemon Law process - anyone been through it?

I'm guessing I'll need a lawyer, so any recommendations in WA (North of Seattle, specifically) are appreciated.

As of next week, I'm fairly positive that I'll meet the Lemon criteria for my state. Now what? I'm supposed to write a certified letter to the manufacturer asking for replacement or repurchase, then wait for a response - should I have a lawyer write something up, or will a simple letter from me suffice?

I guess the simple answer is get a lawyer, but how does that process work? I pay the lawyer some outrageous price, he does his job, then what? Can I file suit to have my legal fees paid?

If there's anyone out there that's actually been through the process, please share your experiences.
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post #2 of 14 Old 06-23-2004, 2:26 PM
 
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Re: Need help w/ Lemon Law process - anyone been through it?

You'll have to get a copy of the law in your state. I have found that the lemon law sometimes only exists in our minds.

Ride Red

Last edited by nedro; 06-23-2004 at 2:26 PM.
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post #3 of 14 Old 06-23-2004, 2:27 PM
 
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Re: Need help w/ Lemon Law process - anyone been through it?

http://www.atg.wa.gov/consumer/lemon/
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post #4 of 14 Old 06-23-2004, 2:39 PM
 
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Re: Need help w/ Lemon Law process - anyone been through it?

You might not need a blood-sucking lawyer....
Do You Need An Attorney?

It is not necessary for you to have an attorney; however, you may choose to be represented by counsel. Please indicate on the Request For Arbitration form if you will be represented by an attorney. The manufacturer may also be represented by an attorney. "Reasonable" attorney costs will be refunded to you in an award only if the manufacturer is also represented by counsel.

But then again, if your case is sound enough, you can get that paid for by the other party when you win.

Can you say 6 in a ROW!!!!
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post #5 of 14 Old 06-23-2004, 3:05 PM
 
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Re: Need help w/ Lemon Law process - anyone been through it?

Glad this isn't happening to me. The FB Hounds of Hell would surely be loosed on me for owning this unreliable Italian POS.

On a more serious note jrod, I'm sorry to hear you're having this type of trouble with your new bike. What exactly is the issue going on? You're only on your 3rd post, but maybe you posted elsewhere and I missed it.

Last edited by Chain; 06-23-2004 at 3:13 PM.
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post #6 of 14 Old 06-23-2004, 3:12 PM
 
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Re: Need help w/ Lemon Law process - anyone been through it?

I'll let him explain it when he gets time (We both work at the same company).
Long story short is that his dealer sucks Donkey Balls and Honda is listening to them more than him, pretty weak IMHO.
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post #7 of 14 Old 06-23-2004, 4:09 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Need help w/ Lemon Law process - anyone been through it?

Long story short (ok, maybe not so short):

The engine misses/hesitates right off idle up to about 2400 RPM. It is a violent miss - the bike lurches/bucks as it tries to rev up - huge loss of power, feels like it's going to die. Does it clutch in or clutch out, but usually only when the bike is completely warmed up / hot. I've been to the dealer four times now (it's in the shop now on it's fourth visit) with no fix in sight. The problem is intermittent - it doesn't occur all the time. At it's worst case, the bike is nearly unridable in the lower RPM range (ala stop and go traffic).

First visit: Dealer couldn't duplicate problem, gave it back to me.

Second visit: Dealer could duplicate, found the throttle bodies where out of sync. Sync'ed the TBs, gave it back to me. The problem remained.

Third visit: Dealer couldn't duplicate problem again. They said they were in contact with the District Service Mgr, he told them that Honda won't pay for anymore warranty work because I have aftermarte flush mount signals. I had to remove the flush mounts and put it back to stock before they would work on it again. I got the bike back and rode another week with the problem.

I removed all the aftermarket wiring for the flush mounts (while leaving the flush mounts attached to the fairings). The bike has it's original wiring untouched, but turn signals completely unplugged.

Fourth visit. Complained that the last time they had the bike, they didn't reconnect the fuel tank vent hose, so any overflow would spill directly onto the cylinders (also filed complaint with Honda corp about this). I explained to the Service Mgr what I did about the turn signals.

As I was walking around the store, he came back to me saying my turn signals don't work. I said no **** sherlock, I unplugged them because you told me they didn't want aftermarket signals. He said he had instructions to call the DSM before they could touch my bike, and that he wanted the stock signals reinstalled. I told him that if the DSM had a problem again with my signals, he could call me and I'd put him in touch with a lawyer that would explain the Magnussen-Moss warranty act to him - aka my turn signals voided the warranty for the ... you guessed it... turn signal system ONLY, NOT the engine.

I left it at that.

Here's a vid of what it's doing at idle - you can imagine what it's like trying to ride it when it's missing that bad...

http://www.casadelafiesta.com/vids/mvi_0312.avi
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post #8 of 14 Old 06-23-2004, 4:30 PM
 
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Re: Need help w/ Lemon Law process - anyone been through it?

If you have any other Honda dealers in the area, you may want to take it to them. Other than that, try to get the name of the District Service Manager and talk to him yourself.

On a side note, your issue may or may not be a big fix. Has it done this from the get go or just recently started?
The F3 had a two stage air induction system somewhat like that of the 1000RR - although in a more crude form. When the air solenoid valve didn't work right, it produced problems similar to yours, although the more frequent was a violent stumble in the upper revs.
On race bike airboxes, many (myself included) removed the system completely to utilize only the upper rev feature - as the lower rev was useless to us. If one removed the solenoid valve and hoses completely, the bike would seriously buck like a mad horse around 25 mph, and would not rev any higher. When investigating the system, all one had to do was to reconnect two hoses in a straight through pattern and the problem was mysteriously solved.
Does this directly translate to the 1000RR? Of course not, with the F3 system having to do with pressurizing the carbs, but it may be worth a shot. If you are mechanically inclined, and have a pal that will do a swap with you, you may just want to open up your airbox and swap valves. If it fixes it, you know you have a good bike and can then go back to the "service manager" at the dealership and mention you have a feeling that it just may be that valve. If not, you're no worse off.

Aside from that, your situation may unfortunately necessitate a lawyer.
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post #9 of 14 Old 06-23-2004, 4:42 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Need help w/ Lemon Law process - anyone been through it?

Thanks for the tip, BDA116.

Problem has occurred ever since 400 miles (now 3000). Started off gradual, then got worse as I approached 1000 miles. The 600 mile service which I did myself did not affect the performance at all.

I actually have tried doing the flapper mod on the bike, and noticed no difference in my problem.
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post #10 of 14 Old 06-23-2004, 4:46 PM
 
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Re: Need help w/ Lemon Law process - anyone been through it?

I've heard that the lemon law does not apply to bikes/atv/etc. Maybe that's just a FL thing. Dunno...........
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post #11 of 14 Old 06-23-2004, 4:46 PM
 
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Re: Need help w/ Lemon Law process - anyone been through it?

The valve I'm talking about is separate from the flapper. It does control the flapper, but may also control something else.
It may be either #13 in the following: http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/200_04...noid_valve.cfm

Or even #7 here: http://www.ronayers.com/fiche/200_04...trol_valve.cfm
I could be wrong, but it may be worth a look. Either one shouldn't be much hassle to get to.

Last edited by BDA116; 06-23-2004 at 4:47 PM.
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post #12 of 14 Old 06-23-2004, 6:57 PM
 
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Re: Need help w/ Lemon Law process - anyone been through it?

as far as the lemon law goes, it covers cars and bikes. i should know( i'm going through it now in kentucky). i'm deployed to kuwait, but my case is still in court. the first thing to do is (if the bike is still under warranty), take it to another honda dealership and see if they what they come up with. maybe they can fix the problem. if not, then give the honda headquarters a call. they need to know if you're not recieving quality service. sometimes, it helps to have the boss put a foot in their ass. also, so they will have to be informed so you can say that you've exhausted all means if you take it to court. now, if you decide to take it to court, consult a lawyer that specializes in lemon law. each state is different, but they all specify that the vehicle have to have been in the shop for a certain amount of days or have been repaired a certain amount of time( for kentucky , it's got to be in the shop for 30 dfays or more or repaired at least 3 times without being repaired). make sure that you kee all documents from when it went into the shop( these are the most important pieces of the case). please make you have keep those handy because you can't bring a case without them.that's pretty much it. the lawyer will do the rest.depending on the state, you may or may not have to go into arbitration. he'll bring your case before a judge and the judge will then determine what the recourse will be. most of the time , it won't even go to court. when a lawyer is involved , they usually settle out of court. you can either have a new vehicle, be paid damages along with having your vehicle repaired or get a full refund. never go at this alone. dealerships will try to screw you every time. just call a lawyer and have him explain your states lemon law. good luck. hope i helped.
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post #13 of 14 Old 06-23-2004, 7:50 PM
 
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Re: Need help w/ Lemon Law process - anyone been through it?

Too bad the dealer is being a prick, this sounds like it's probably something small and silly. Like a vacuum hose wrong or something.



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post #14 of 14 Old 06-23-2004, 8:24 PM
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Re: Need help w/ Lemon Law process - anyone been through it?

In Michigan, the Lemon Law does NOT apply to bikes. Sorry to hear about your problem with the new ride. Like LTL said, it's probably something small and/or simple...you just need a competent mechanic to find it.

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