A lot of Headshake plz help. - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 43 Old 08-20-2004, 2:14 PM Thread Starter
 
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A lot of Headshake plz help.

Hi,

THis is my first post! I Live in montreal(canada) and I own a 954 2002.

Here's my story:

Since I go to work with my bike, I bought a top case (GIVI) to help me bring my stuff. zometime when I feel lazy I put off hands from steerin and let the bikes continue until it stop. Never had any problem with that. But with the top case, sometime I get headshake (small-media tankslap) when removing both and from steering. No problem without top case. This means I never had any tankslap or shake at any speed what so ever. never

SO to help a bit I went to my dealer and ask if the steering upgrade would help a bit. He said yes and proceeded.

Now I got continuous headshake(without the top case !!!) from about 55 km/h to 95 km/h. Dont even think remove your hands from the steering. Even when I hold the steering very tight I stilll feel a lot of headshakes in my hands. I didnt try it over 140 km/h But from 100-140 seems to be ok.

The dealer told me that this is normal and that any bike could do that and suggested a wonderfull damper for 700$

My bike was supose to be a little better or a least same as it was before the "upgrade" and now it's 10 times worst! The mecanics tried to tighten the bearing but that didnt change anything. Now I asked them to put back hold bearing or a new but they dont want....THis is smelling a law suite here...

am i alone?

Can anyone help. Suggestion?

thanks,





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post #2 of 43 Old 08-20-2004, 2:23 PM
 
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Re: A lot of Headshake plz help.

Well, the Givi is lightening up an already light front end. I'm suprised that switching from flat bearings to tapered increased the problem. It doesn't make sense unless thay did not properly adjust the bearings.
BTW...Get a damper, dampner or whatever you spell it like, but get one. And recheck the dealer's work ALWAYS!!!

Ride Red

Last edited by nedro; 08-20-2004 at 2:23 PM.
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post #3 of 43 Old 08-20-2004, 2:28 PM
 
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Re: A lot of Headshake plz help.

Too much weight on the rear it sounds like....

On my XX, with a full 3 bag Givi setup, if I had a lot of weight back there and took my hands off the bars, they would start shaking back and forth. With my hands on the bars, I didn't have any problems or even notice any strange handling.

You should be able to fix it with suspension adjustments/upgrades, I would think.
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post #4 of 43 Old 08-20-2004, 2:34 PM
 
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Re: A lot of Headshake plz help.

My VFR800 will shake it's head when my Givi topcase is on...especially on a decel condition....and even more so with a D207 front. Tapered bearings usually add enough damping to reduce this somewhat. You seem to have some other problem....for starters, I would verify what bearings were actually installed, and if the preload is correct...

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post #5 of 43 Old 08-20-2004, 4:13 PM
 
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Re: A lot of Headshake plz help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nedro
I'm suprised that switching from flat bearings to tapered increased the problem.
I thought the "upgrade" replaced tapereds with ball bearings.
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post #6 of 43 Old 08-20-2004, 4:36 PM
 
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Re: A lot of Headshake plz help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus
I thought the "upgrade" replaced tapereds with ball bearings.
It did as far as I know which makes the steering comparable to the 929.

There are so many variables here that I don't know where to start, but here is the "short list":

1: Tire pressure. If you are running the recommended tire pressures, it may be that you have a bit too much air in the rear tire (even considering the Givi's as the stock pressures are designed to accommodate a 160 pound rider with a 125 pound passenger).

2: Tire wear. If your tires are cupped (especially the front) this will aggrevate headshake.

3: Preload. Even though loading the rear of the bike (with the Givi's) is closer to the anticipated load, your should check your sag and if the front sag is greater than 38 mm or the rear sag is less than 30 mm, you need to adjust your preload to within this range. If you cannot, you need to respring both ends.

4: Suspension mileage. Stock suspension components start to go south after even 5000 miles, so if this is a commuter and you have racked up a lot of miles, it's probably time to consider at least a freshen on the front end and replacing the rear shock.

Without more information (like rider weight, mileage etc.) it's hard to be conclusive, but simply installing a damper will not resolve the problem, rather it will mask it. While making it easier to ride, you will probably need a lot of damping to overcome the problem which will make the bike less predictable in the event of an emergency situation.

Last edited by abtech; 08-20-2004 at 4:38 PM.
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post #7 of 43 Old 08-20-2004, 4:37 PM
 
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Re: A lot of Headshake plz help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacchus
I thought the "upgrade" replaced tapereds with ball bearings.
Other way around. They put the ball bearings in for quicker steering but all it did was cause more headshake. So that ended up being one of the recalls.

Ride Red
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post #8 of 43 Old 08-20-2004, 5:27 PM
 
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Re: A lot of Headshake plz help.

The 954 initially came with tapered bearings, which caused some to complain that the steering was too quick. Thus, the downgrade to ball bearings.
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post #9 of 43 Old 08-20-2004, 5:41 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: A lot of Headshake plz help.

Hi,

<<riginally Posted by nedro
I'm suprised that switching from flat bearings to tapered increased the problem. >>

I think the new bearing are normal ball bearing...THe mecanics said they are cheaper and lower quality than the original....Upgrade???

The main problem I have is that I get headshake without he GIVI installed! I've removed it to make tests and it shakes.

I also agree that putting a damper will "mask" the problem cause I dont think it's normal that shake happend.

My rear tire is also 100% New. Front tire is a Batlax BT012 with about 8000km. Im pretty sure that this is not cause by the front tire since it was a lot better before thay changed the bearing(4 hour before)

Quote:
3: Preload. Even though loading the rear of the bike (with the Givi's) is closer to the anticipated load, your should check your sag and if the front sag is greater than 38 mm or the rear sag is less than 30 mm, you need to adjust your preload to within this range. If you cannot, you need to respring both ends.
How I do that? Could you explain more?

The Mecanis also told me that the old bearing was in very bad condition when they removed it. There was a lot of aluminium dust in it. I feel my steering now a lot more "quick" to turn. It used to have a a kind of restriction wich was a good dampener.....


BTW ,my bike is about 31000km old....


DO you guy experience that kind of headshake on your 954's? DO you sometime get off your hand from steering ?


thanks you, I apreciate all your comments/idea.



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post #10 of 43 Old 08-20-2004, 5:43 PM
 
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Re: A lot of Headshake plz help.

Quote:
suggested a wonderfull damper for 700$
$700??? I'd look online... You should be able to find a top of the line Ohlins or Scotts for not too much over $400... You can probably even find other makes for less than that...

- BA
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post #11 of 43 Old 08-20-2004, 5:54 PM
 
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Re: A lot of Headshake plz help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDA116
The 954 initially came with tapered bearings, which caused some to complain that the steering was too quick. Thus, the downgrade to ball bearings.
My hard drive was using Fuzzy memory (read brain fart). You guys are right.

Ride Red
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post #12 of 43 Old 08-20-2004, 6:00 PM
 
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Re: A lot of Headshake plz help.

I just lost a great response. Let's try again.

According to the K.I.S.S. principle:

Problem Headshake after Givi installed on Fireblade 954 RR

Comment Race Replica bikes aren't designed to carry heavy tail luggage without wind tunnel design I.E. rotten aerodynamics.

Solution First and best solution: sell the Givi and get a tankbag and/or backpack to haul your junk on your racebike/commuter


Problem Dealer replaces stearing head bearings

Comment Dealer wasn't thinking through the problem and just threw a guess at the "upgrade" being able to do the job. Replacement of stearing bearings require complete disassembly of the front end, thereby necessitating complete reassembly. Did everything get properly installed and torqued? Were the forks properly installed and aligned? Even if so, the Givi still acts like a flying gib sail with a brick in the back!

Solution Do first solution above. If problem persists, see a qualified mechanic to make certain the front end is properly installed.


Problem Headshakes when I take both hands off the bars.

Comment

Solution See solutions to problems above. Keep your hands on the bars. Perhaps you really need a Goldwing.


Honestly, I see a simple problem that was incorrectly addressed. All the other recommendations in the previous posts are very valid, but because you stated there was nothing wrong before, I gotta go with the simple stuff. I just hope your dealer has not made things worse. Good luck!

Official Racer Dude Guy, according to a neighborhood 6 year old.
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post #13 of 43 Old 08-20-2004, 6:03 PM
 
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Re: A lot of Headshake plz help.

By the time I finally posted, I didn't see your reply about removal of the Givi and still having headshakes.

Time to find someone to reinstall the front suspension, check the tires and wheel bearings.

Good luck!

Official Racer Dude Guy, according to a neighborhood 6 year old.
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post #14 of 43 Old 08-20-2004, 7:51 PM
 
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Re: A lot of Headshake plz help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxib
Problem Headshake after Givi installed on Fireblade 954 RR

Comment Race Replica bikes aren't designed to carry heavy tail luggage without wind tunnel design I.E. rotten aerodynamics.

Solution First and best solution: sell the Givi and get a tankbag and/or backpack to haul your junk on your racebike/commuter
No offense...but that's just nonsense imho....

Lots of 900's are used in sport/tour trim without excessive headshake. His bike has another problem that can be diagnosed and fixed.....

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post #15 of 43 Old 08-20-2004, 8:53 PM
 
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Re: A lot of Headshake plz help.

Um, do the 954's have head shake? Is the Pope a catholic? Do the Osmands have teeth? If there was ever a bike begging for a damper, it's the 954. BUT, I'd go through what Abtech listed before you added one, but DO add one. I'm betting that if you changed your front tyre with 8000clicks on it, it'd go away. BUT, I'd get your head bearings back to what they had in them, and see how that goes. I wouldn't be threatening law suits, as that won't help you get anywhere with the dealer, and they will only dig their heels in and do as little as possible for you. Maybe they've done 10 other 954's with a similar problem and thought yours would be the same. They also get 50 guys a day coming in that know everything and listen to nothing (which I'm not saying you are) that KNOW this or READ that etc............It can be hard to get around that crap befroe you can get to the bottom of things. I'd go back and calmly gp through the problem with them and explain that you don't wanna waste their time, but you really don't think it's right, and can they help. The more of a pain in the arse you get with them, the less they're gonna help you.
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