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post #1 of 20 Old 10-19-2004, 11:32 AM Thread Starter
 
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suspension resource?

can someone recommend a book, manual, or even video/dvd that will inform me how suspension, especially setups similar to my 954, work and how to go about servicing and proper tuning? I've been thinking about ordering the Traxxion Dynamics "suspension for mortals" dvd but curious to see if anyone else has used it and if it is as good as it sounds. I've also been thinking about getting my forks redone. I'm pretty mechanically inclined, just haven't gotten inside suspension very much, and I'd like to do it myself if possible. I think I could handle installing a valve kit like the Ohlins or Racetech. But, after reading old threads it sounds like sending my forks to Dan Kyle might be the way to go. Someone want to point me in the right direction? thanks
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post #2 of 20 Old 10-19-2004, 10:05 PM
 
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Re: suspension resource?

PPS Suspension OHLINS Guy

I won't be able to provide the techbooks but PPS ( Stig Peterson ) recently installed the superbike kit, Ohlins .95 springs, oil and seals on my 954 forks and they are comparable now to my buddy's real Ohlins forks. He's pricey but his resume is exemplary. Good Luck to you
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post #3 of 20 Old 03-17-2005, 3:08 AM
 
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Re: suspension resource?

kc-

You don't happen to know of any good suspension tuners in IL do ya?
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post #4 of 20 Old 03-17-2005, 4:47 AM
 
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Re: suspension resource?

Send the forks to Dan Kyle, it's worth it. And buy a decent shock (Penske or Ohlins).
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post #5 of 20 Old 03-17-2005, 5:01 AM
 
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Re: suspension resource?

Quote:
Originally Posted by deez
Send the forks to Dan Kyle, it's worth it. And buy a decent shock (Penske or Ohlins).
To me that equates to roughly $1,000 (w/ a used shock of course). Looks like it's time to start selling stuff to get this bike to at least ride like a stock **insert any year, make & model here**
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post #6 of 20 Old 03-17-2005, 7:06 AM
 
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Re: suspension resource?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kc954
can someone recommend a book, manual, or even video/dvd that will inform me how suspension, especially setups similar to my 954, work and how to go about servicing and proper tuning? I've been thinking about ordering the Traxxion Dynamics "suspension for mortals" dvd but curious to see if anyone else has used it and if it is as good as it sounds. I've also been thinking about getting my forks redone. I'm pretty mechanically inclined, just haven't gotten inside suspension very much, and I'd like to do it myself if possible. I think I could handle installing a valve kit like the Ohlins or Racetech. But, after reading old threads it sounds like sending my forks to Dan Kyle might be the way to go. Someone want to point me in the right direction? thanks
Nobody has so far answered your question kc954 and I can't either. It is a strange coincidence but in the last 48 hours I almost posted an identical message myself. I am looking for a technical manual with a view to firstly being able to do my own suspension work and secondly to be able to offer this service to others. There is a big gap in my locality for people looking for honest and capable suspension experts. Suspension for Mortals, from memory, deliberately divorces itself from the idea of being a technical manual for mechanics. Quote "The idea of the video is not to teach how to service the suspension by disassembling components, but to provide a solid guide to help the average person understand the principles of suspension and perform adjustments that will help them at the track". What I'm looking for is what it says it isn't. If I find a suitable bible I'll pm you.

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post #7 of 20 Old 03-17-2005, 7:29 AM
 
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Re: suspension resource?

Fox used to publish a full setup manual complete with a symptom/cure database. Yamaha's suspension setup manuals that come with all new TZs are excellent and provide an extremely comprehensive guide to suspension setup under all conditions.
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post #8 of 20 Old 03-17-2005, 7:38 AM
 
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Re: suspension resource?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abtech
Fox used to publish a full setup manual complete with a symptom/cure database. Yamaha's suspension setup manuals that come with all new TZs are excellent and provide an extremely comprehensive guide to suspension setup under all conditions.
I think what kc954 is talking about and certainly what I am looking for is not just a setup manual but a book which gets right into the nitty gritty (well perhaps not too gritty ) of the full rework of forks and shocks.

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post #9 of 20 Old 03-17-2005, 8:08 AM
 
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Re: suspension resource?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RPinOZ
I think what kc954 is talking about and certainly what I am looking for is not just a setup manual but a book which gets right into the nitty gritty (well perhaps not too gritty ) of the full rework of forks and shocks.
That would involve reading the service manual. I assume you mean modifying the original components to enhance performance, if this is the case, I recommend going to the Penske website and downloading a shock manual, as their documentation goes into great detail regarding the effect of changing valving and flow rates through the damping components. I believe Ohlins has similar information, although I haven't seen it on their website.

Most of what people like Dan Kyle, Stig Pettersson and Max McAllister do is based on an excellent understanding of fluid hydraulics, resistance dynamics and field experience. I doubt many books or videos can bring all of this to the table. The Fox book is more of a "If the bike does this, then change this", while the Yamaha manual reads like "If the front end is still chattering, then disassemble the forks and change valve stack number 2 to match figure 19".

The information is out there, but what you seem to be looking for is all of this plus the 20 or 30 years of experience the suspension gurus have. Prepare to roll up your sleeves . . .
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post #10 of 20 Old 03-17-2005, 3:02 PM
 
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Re: suspension resource?

The Traxxion Dynamics DVD gives information on how a suspension works and what you can do to adjust them; doesn't really have any details on servicing them.

Baker Race Gear is the Official Midwest Axxion Center for Traxxion Dynamics, and I believe is somewhere around Chicago.
http://www.axxioncenters.com/midwest/aboutus.asp

4 & 6 Performance is also in the Chicago area.

MD Racing is also in IL, near the Quad Cities.

Dan Kyle is the man for Honda suspension set-up. You wouldn't go wrong sending your stuff to him, either.

The Independent Bike Suspension Forum
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post #11 of 20 Old 03-17-2005, 4:24 PM
 
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Re: suspension resource?

Send your forks to DK! buy a shock. buy Max's DVD...20$ right? It's worth it IMO. I was in that class while he was filming....I paid 100$! It was good info IMO. No servicing info like mentioned but still really good stuff for a suspension newb.
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post #12 of 20 Old 03-17-2005, 5:29 PM
 
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Re: suspension resource?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02FBlade
Send your forks to DK! buy a shock. buy Max's DVD...20$ right? It's worth it IMO. I was in that class while he was filming....I paid 100$! It was good info IMO. No servicing info like mentioned but still really good stuff for a suspension newb.

What he said. I have Max's video and i think it helps ALOT, worth the money.
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post #13 of 20 Old 03-17-2005, 5:44 PM
 
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Re: suspension resource?

there's a school in CA for learning all about suspension. I believe they teach everything you want to know, revalving, respringing, polishing, etc. I don't know how much it is or the name of it. I just know of it because one of my truck driving instructors went there. I wanna say it began with a G, Gray maybe. I'm not really sure.

if you can't convince them, confuse them.
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post #14 of 20 Old 03-17-2005, 5:58 PM
 
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Re: suspension resource?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abtech
That would involve reading the service manual. I assume you mean modifying the original components to enhance performance, if this is the case, I recommend going to the Penske website and downloading a shock manual, as their documentation goes into great detail regarding the effect of changing valving and flow rates through the damping components. I believe Ohlins has similar information, although I haven't seen it on their website.

Most of what people like Dan Kyle, Stig Pettersson and Max McAllister do is based on an excellent understanding of fluid hydraulics, resistance dynamics and field experience. I doubt many books or videos can bring all of this to the table. The Fox book is more of a "If the bike does this, then change this", while the Yamaha manual reads like "If the front end is still chattering, then disassemble the forks and change valve stack number 2 to match figure 19".

The information is out there, but what you seem to be looking for is all of this plus the 20 or 30 years of experience the suspension gurus have. Prepare to roll up your sleeves . . .
Fair comment Abtech and a pretty good assessment of where I'd eventually like to be but I probably don't have 20 or 30 years to get there. But I guess I need to learn to walk before I can run and Max's DVD and the service manual look like a good places to start. Thanks.

my bike
I'd like to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa
not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car.

Last edited by RPinOZ; 03-17-2005 at 5:58 PM.
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post #15 of 20 Old 03-18-2005, 1:20 AM
 
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Re: suspension resource?

Quote:
Originally Posted by garbau
The Traxxion Dynamics DVD gives information on how a suspension works and what you can do to adjust them; doesn't really have any details on servicing them.

Baker Race Gear is the Official Midwest Axxion Center for Traxxion Dynamics, and I believe is somewhere around Chicago.
http://www.axxioncenters.com/midwest/aboutus.asp

4 & 6 Performance is also in the Chicago area.

MD Racing is also in IL, near the Quad Cities.

Dan Kyle is the man for Honda suspension set-up. You wouldn't go wrong sending your stuff to him, either.

The Independent Bike Suspension Forum
garbau- thanks for posting up that info. I just have a couple of things I'd like to add based on things I've heard, keep in mind this is just what I have heard and I don't have any real-first hand experience with these shops...

4%6 Racing is notoriously expensive around here for just about anything (they don't seem like the nicest folks in the world based on phone coversations either). Depending on what day you call and who you get on the phone the price quote for the same service/parts/tuning can fluctuate greatly. This kind of turned me off to the place although it is the nearest Dyno facility near me (and they are known for doing excellent frame/suspension work, gmd computrack etc.)

MD Racing-- Well I get mixed reviews about Matt Drucker and his services. A couple guys swear by him and some people think he's a rip off and should only be called if you're looking to do some heavy engine mods. Supposedly he's pretty high priced for what he does. I do know of a few folks who've had work done there and while one was extremely happy, the other one thought he got ripped off in a big way (can't please everyone I guess?)

As for the other place you mentioned (baker) I'll have to look into them and see where they are, never heard of them before so I'd like to learn more.

So far the experiences I've had in this area when it comes to buying, servicing, or modding bikes in any way makes me more than happy to send the work out to someone competent and honest like Dan Kyle. That guy's forgotten more about racing/suspension that most people will probably ever know.

Great tips on the DVD everyone (BTW). I'll have to pick that up too, maybe it can help de-mystify some of the suspension mumbo-jumbo I'm always reading about in the cycle rags.
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