954RR front brake fluid/performance problem - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 9 Old 05-30-2005, 2:44 AM Thread Starter
 
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954RR front brake fluid/performance problem

Yep, overall 954 brakes are amazing. I still have rubber hoses, they little lack on the feel, but still there is lot of power.

I have changed brake-fluids 3000km ago, since I have done lot of endos, one slow trackday, During that trackday I noticed the clear(new fluid) color turned to light tan. Yesterday I did higher speed trackday, with lot of brakings from 229km/h(indicated). during the day the brake got worst and worst. lever goes deeper, It still has all the power, but the feel is musshy. The color of the fluid at the reservoir is more tanned. Driving back from the track the lever has lot more travel, usually I could brake with one finger at normal traffic situations, but after the track there is no room for my other fingers under the lever, so it comes lot closer to the bar now.

I'm gonna chance the fluid, and the question goes. How often you change the fluids if you do trackdays.? Everytime?

I used DOT4. Maybe I should try different brand dot4? Or some silicone ****? Basicly it's no hassle to change the fluid, so I may just change it after trackdays. I checked, there is no leaks. Maybe it's time dor Steel braided lines too.

Jake
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post #2 of 9 Old 05-30-2005, 2:52 AM
 
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Re: 954RR front brake fluid/performance problem

Some of it may be from when the fluid gets warm, it will cause the hoses to flex more. I use DOT4 and have never had any probs. You may also have air bubbles in your lines, so be carefull when you change the fluid.
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post #3 of 9 Old 05-30-2005, 4:17 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 954RR front brake fluid/performance problem

I had bleeded the air out very carefully and the brake was good. It got worst during that hard track usage. Maybe the fluid boiled? and formed some gas in the system?

Yep, on my previous bike the feeling got spongy during trackday, but was fine after the system cooled down. Now the feeling stays even the system has cooled down.

Jake

Last edited by JakeT; 05-30-2005 at 4:17 AM.
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post #4 of 9 Old 05-30-2005, 8:35 AM
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Re: 954RR front brake fluid/performance problem

Replace the pads...

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post #5 of 9 Old 05-30-2005, 8:41 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 954RR front brake fluid/performance problem

pads are stock and pretty new.

here is some info from belray page.

Q: Sir Tech,
My bike’s brakes are currently filled with DOT 4. Is it true that I will get better performance if I switch to Bel-Ray Silicone DOT 5 Brake Fluid?

A: No, Years ago, many road race teams used DOT 5 silicone brake fluid to get higher boiling points than the DOT 3 & 4 brake fluids of that era. Since DOT 5 silicone is not hydroscopic, meaning it won’t absorb water, it retains its high boiling point over time. On the other hand DOT 3, 4 and 5.1 brake fluids that are glycol based are hydroscopic and do pull in water which then lowers the boiling point. That is why you will see wet and dry boiling points, with the dry boiling points always being higher. Glycol based brake fluids may start out with a fairly high dry boiling point but as they absorb moisture the boiling point decreases. So every time your brakes get really hot and then cool, condensation occurs and moisture is absorbed. That is why it is important to replace your brake fluid regularly. It may seem obvious that DOT 5 silicone is the best choice, but not so. Today most road race teams use DOT 4 or DOT 5.1 glycol based brake fluids because the dry and wet boiling points today are very high and in some cases higher than DOT 5 silicone. The number one reason not to use DOT 5 silicone is a slightly mushy lever or pedal feeling as compared to glycol based brake fluids. This is the nature of the product. Street riders may not feel the difference, but the race teams prefer the precise feeling of glycol. The only motorcycles that I know of rolling off the production line with DOT 5 silicone are Harley-Davidson® and other American made motorcycles; and that is mainly where we sell our Bel-Ray Silicone DOT 5 Brake Fluid. I recommend you stay with the DOT 4 fluid for performance, not to mention the enormous job it is to switch your system over from glycol to silicone. If that job is not done properly, you run the risk of coagulation if remnants of DOT 4 are mixed with DOT 5 silicone. I hope that’s not too much for you at once. Maybe you should read half, take a play break, then read the rest.

"So every time your brakes get really hot and then cool, condensation occurs and moisture is absorbed"

From another page I found that the tanned color indicates how much water the fluid has absorbed. When it's new it's clear and it gets darker when it absorbs water.

I'm gonna get better quality fluid and change it often. At least when it's gets tanned.

JT
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post #6 of 9 Old 05-30-2005, 9:06 AM
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Re: 954RR front brake fluid/performance problem

Go ahead and change the fluid, but you'll still probably have the same amount of travel in the lever. A couple of track days on stock pads will wear them considerably and give you the softness/increased travel you're feeling (assuming you've bled the system COMPLETELY).

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post #7 of 9 Old 05-30-2005, 1:07 PM
 
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Re: 954RR front brake fluid/performance problem

Yup, replace the pads. I only get about half way through a stock set before I change them out because they feel mooshie and longer lever travel. They dont wear evenly and take more lever travel to go from just touching, to full brake application.
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post #8 of 9 Old 05-31-2005, 1:32 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 954RR front brake fluid/performance problem

yep, local honda dealer said to me that automotive fluid cannot handle track usage. got motul full synt 600 fluid. Changed it and it was back to how it felt.

this fluid should handle much more heat then normal fluid. And it can be mixed with dot4, so it's easier to change then some silicone shiat...

Brake pad wear should not effect the lever travel, hydraulic brake is self adjusting to my understanding. the more the pistons move out, more fluid goes in. The lever starts at the same point and because fluid is non-compressible it should be same with new pads and old ones.

What pads have you been using, OEM or some others? I like the feel of the OEM, very good feel during endos. They don't bite. I don't some race pads that bite too hard and have on/off feeling.

Jake

thanks for the comments
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post #9 of 9 Old 05-31-2005, 2:08 AM
 
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Re: 954RR front brake fluid/performance problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeT
yep, local honda dealer said to me that automotive fluid cannot handle track usage. got motul full synt 600 fluid. Changed it and it was back to how it felt.

this fluid should handle much more heat then normal fluid. And it can be mixed with dot4, so it's easier to change then some silicone shiat...

Brake pad wear should not effect the lever travel, hydraulic brake is self adjusting to my understanding. the more the pistons move out, more fluid goes in. The lever starts at the same point and because fluid is non-compressible it should be same with new pads and old ones.

What pads have you been using, OEM or some others? I like the feel of the OEM, very good feel during endos. They don't bite. I don't some race pads that bite too hard and have on/off feeling.

Jake

thanks for the comments

The problem is the do not wear evenly, the face wears at an angle. Pull the pads and inspect closely, one side is probaly higher than the other side. What happens is they are now crooked, inital pull on the lever brings the high side into contact, then it takes more for the pistons to push it crooked so the pad face is flat on the rotor. I only use the OEM, they are hared to beat.
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