HELP! Problems with PAIR removal... - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 26 Old 03-04-2006, 12:37 AM Thread Starter
 
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HELP! Problems with PAIR removal...

Hey all... I need some advice from the 954 gods ---

O.k.... just added a full ARATA exhaust last week - obviously removed the HTEV cables and the flapper/cable combos. (Started with a Dan Kyle PC3-USB ARATA map...for now --) So far so good...

Then, this week decided to install a veypor data logging computer - thus had to have the bike apart to run the wire harness through the bike... o.k. this install went perfectly --- computer works great.

My next thought being... well, the bike is apart - might as well pull the PAIR VALVE.

I've dug and dug for info - found quite a bit.... but all info for the 929 (not 954).. o.k. a few posts have mentioned that the 954 was fairly identical... and then a few more mentioned they did the mod and everything worked great.

I've pulled the PAIR valve, connected the Exhaust Port inlets together with hose.... put it all together..... bike won't start!

o.k. fine, so I pulled off everything again and let it set all day... bike starts (with the exhaust ports not block - pair still removed) with the airbox off...map and iat sensor not attached.

o.k. it must work then... button it all up... bike won't start....

What am I doing wrong? Any suggestions?

Does the PAIR removal not work properly on the 954? Did I bump something else while close by?
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post #2 of 26 Old 03-04-2006, 10:15 AM
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Re: HELP! Problems with PAIR removal...

The bike will still start without the pair valve or any modifications to the wiring going to it. I'd recommend rechecking you electrical connections along the wire harness to find the issue.
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post #3 of 26 Old 03-04-2006, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: HELP! Problems with PAIR removal...

... another possiblity - the exhaust port inlet valves are really close to the spark/plugs - coils.... was wondering if maybe I put a little too much pressure on a coil while trying to cap off off the pair inlet ports. (so far though --- I haven't touched the coils at all... i.e. removing the connectors to get to the inlet ports)

Haven't pulled the plugs yet.... (although really didn't do anything to foul a plug --- but not sure.... I guess starting the engine without the airbox on could possibly cause the engine to run too rich and foul out a plug --- plugs which probably need to be changed anyway) ----- the engine is almost acting like it isn't getting the required air & chocking out... or like when a carborated engine gets too much gas.... either way --- pulling everything, then letting it set -- allowed it to start..... then after everything was back together again --- it wouldn't....
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post #4 of 26 Old 03-04-2006, 12:34 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: HELP! Problems with PAIR removal...

o.k ---- I'll leave the PAIR removed with inlets capped...(I'll look elsewhere for the problem)

Here's my list so far...

- check wire harness again

- check plugs (replace, needs to be done anyway...)

- double check coil wiring

after this is done --- I'll give an update...

Any other ideas anyone?
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post #5 of 26 Old 03-04-2006, 12:37 PM
 
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Re: HELP! Problems with PAIR removal...

Why are you connecting the two PAIR ports with a hose?
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post #6 of 26 Old 03-04-2006, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: HELP! Problems with PAIR removal...

Hey BDA ---

I read off of Sirkbac's site... either cap 'em or route them together... really no reason... it was just easier to find hose than caps.

Could this be a problem?

Last edited by arcticfox; 03-04-2006 at 1:08 PM.
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post #7 of 26 Old 03-04-2006, 12:40 PM
 
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Re: HELP! Problems with PAIR removal...

Not really sure if it could be the cause, but it would be worth eliminating it as a problem by capping them.
Pretty much all auto parts stores carry rubber vacuum caps.
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post #8 of 26 Old 03-04-2006, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: HELP! Problems with PAIR removal...

Hey BDA-

o.k... I'll cap 'em instead...

any other ideas of things to check --- do you think runing the engine without the airbox would foul a plug?
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post #9 of 26 Old 03-04-2006, 12:43 PM
 
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Re: HELP! Problems with PAIR removal...

No. Especially if if it were just for a short test to see if it fired up.
Once it's together, just do a double check of all the wires and fuel hoses is all.
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post #10 of 26 Old 03-04-2006, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: HELP! Problems with PAIR removal...

On my way back home from work right now.....

This time --- I'll cap it... and try to fire it up before getting 'er all back together --- and hope to not foul a plug if they arn't all ready! ha, ha...

Thanks for all the great info! Hopefully I can track this down soon (it makes me nervous having a dead bike on the stand - even if it is too cold to ride!, if I know why - its one thing... but not knowing is killing me!)

I'll post an update in a few hours....

Thanks all! Fireblades can be an awesome resource!
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post #11 of 26 Old 03-04-2006, 1:15 PM
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Re: HELP! Problems with PAIR removal...

Cap 'em, or connect them, either way works, I've done both.

Good idea to double check the plugs. Also, check to make sure you didn't get the wires leading to the coils mixed up (done that before). It is very easy to switch the middle two, and this will lead to definite problems. Good luck!
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post #12 of 26 Old 03-04-2006, 3:36 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: HELP! Problems with PAIR removal...

o.k. back from a 1 hour work break...(headed straight for the garage!) As far as the firing order... I didn't mess with the coils/wires/plugs when I attempted the pair mod. (until now that is...)

Checked all the wiring/harnesses...everything is tight and ready to go all around (except the iat and map still unpluged...) - even checked to make sure the gas hose from the tank wasn't kinked in any spots...

Caped the Exhaust ports with 5/8 vacuum hose caps w/zip ties...

still won't fire...just turned over and sputtered a few times...

I pulled spark plug #4.... it was totally black and wet --- assuming from turning over the engine....mild flooding? (but not gooy like in oil fouling) -- just for kicks.... with the coil & plug out - turned it over.. no spark. (but I could feel the spark coming through the coil...)

I'm assuming fouled plugs right? (I'm assuming you can check the spark by turning over the engine?)
Also... can you check the coil by turning over the engine and measuring with a multi-meter? If so...what voltage?


--- update: I think I just answered my own question.... you can check the plug that way, but I didn't have the plug grounded to somewhere on the engine... (the plug was still nasty!) I also found the answer to the coil question... apparently you can check the resistance? Anyone know what resistance to expect?

Last edited by arcticfox; 03-04-2006 at 4:14 PM.
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post #13 of 26 Old 03-04-2006, 4:20 PM
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Re: HELP! Problems with PAIR removal...

Yup, I think you're right on with fouled plugs. Tends too happen a lot this time of year with short cycling the motor.

When I've fouled plugs in the past I was able to revive them by heating the tips up with a torch until red hot, then cleaning them with a wire brush. You may want to try this to see if you can get a spark instead of measuring the resistance at the coils. Word of caution, when checking for spark, do not hold the coil, unless you like to get shocked. If this works for you, I'd still recommend changing the plugs out to ensure you are getting maximum spark.
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post #14 of 26 Old 03-04-2006, 5:00 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: HELP! Problems with PAIR removal...

ha, ha..... you see I mentioned I knew there was spark coming through the coil... I omited the part about getting shocked!

At least its nothing like 220...
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post #15 of 26 Old 03-04-2006, 11:35 PM
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Re: HELP! Problems with PAIR removal...

Yeah, it's not 220, but enough to get your attention, eh? Let us know if you got her running again. If not, on goes the battle.
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