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post #1 of 12 Old 06-23-2006, 4:12 PM Thread Starter
 
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Charging System Question

I've searched on this problem and found a couple of threads that helped me out, well, more solidified that I think my reg/rec is bad.

My OE battery seemed like it was dieing because the bike would fail to crank over or would crank a couple of times and not start. I figured it was four years old and had 23K on it so it was time to change it. I bought a brand new factory Yuasa battery that comes out of the box serviced and ready to go. For the first couple of weeks it went fine and then the bike sat for another 2 weeks. When I went to fire it up again, same thing. Battery acted like it was going dead. I charged it with my battery tender thinking maybe it just sat too long and rode the bike to work. After working 10 hours, I come back out and go to fire the bike up and it does the same thing. I jump start it, ride it home, and park it in the garage. This morning, it does the same thing and won't fire.

I know that the battery isn't charging. I do have a multi meter and measured the voltage of the battery when it wouldn't start and it was below 12.3. I charged it back up and it measured 13.2. With the bike started and running, the voltage measures 14.4. The Honda manual says that the voltage at 5000 rpm is supposed to be 15.5. When I rev the bike up to 5000 rpm, the voltage reading does not change. Am I on the right track with the reg/rec?

The service manual shows other tests like a voltage leak test and a continuity test on the stator as well as the reg/rec but, to tell you the truth, I'm an idiot when it comes to the multi meter and about the only thing I know how to do with it is measure voltage. So, anybody have any suggestions. I don't want to buy a reg/rec if it's the stator and visa versa. Thanks.

Jarrod
'02 954RR
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post #2 of 12 Old 06-23-2006, 6:07 PM
 
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Re: Charging System Question

Anything above 13 volts and your battery is gaining valuable electrons. 14 volts and greater means your charging system is working. You can find out of something is leaking by pulling one of the battery terminals off and inserting a small light bulb while the bike is off. It shouldn't glow. There should be no current lost.

If your battery goes dead a few times, it may be permanently damaged and may have problems holding a charge in the future.
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post #3 of 12 Old 06-24-2006, 6:09 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Charging System Question

OK, update. The tech at the dealership said pretty much the same thing. He said that 14.4 volts while the bike is running means the system is charging just fine. I asked him why it didn't bump up to 15.5 when the bike was revved to 5000 rpm and his first response was that he has never seen a Honda sportbike put out that much voltage regardless of rpm. He also asked if I had been doing all of this testing with a battery that had been just taken off of the battery tester and I told him yes. he told me that further told him that the reg rec was doing it's job and sensing that the battery was full so it wasn't letting any more than 14.4 volts get to the battery.

So, he told me that it sounded like I had a "key off draw" meaning something is drawing current when the key is in the off position and draining the battery. He told me that I needed to put my multi meter on amps and take the negative lead off of the battery and put the probed in series with the negative cable and negative post on the battery. He told me if it read more thn .02 miliamps, then I had too much current draw and that would drain the battery.

So, I look at my multi meter (remember I said I'm an idiot when it comes to these things) and it doesn't say amperage anywhere on it. The service manual refers to doing this test with an ameter. My multi meter does have DC current measuring on it, is this the same as amperage? I attempted to put it in series on all three of the settings it has for DC current but it doesn't read anything. It's got settings for 200m, 20m, and 2000 something.

So I figure I'm not doing any good with that so I go to dattaway's suggestion and put an LED bulb in series with the negative cable and post and it lit up. I begin pulling fuses 1 by 1 to try to isolate the wiring system that the current draw is in and, low and behold, the last fuse I pull, the bulb doesn't light. Here's the caveat. The fuse happens to be for the clock and fan. The clock needs constant power for it's memory but, is that enough to begin to drain the battery? Without knowing how to test for current draw, I don't know how much current it is drawing. I also don't know why this would be an issue all of a sudden when my bike did just fine up until a few months ago and every other 954 has the same clock.

I also tested the bike running with the stator connector unhooked and it showed a constant 12 volts across the battery terminals and showed the same with the reg/rec unhooked. Suggestions? Or, somebody help this idiot out on how to use and read a multi meter. Thanks.

Jarrod
'02 954RR
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post #4 of 12 Old 06-24-2006, 12:09 PM
 
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Re: Charging System Question

I wouldn't do a current test with an LED. It will light if there's only a fraction of a milliamp. That would be your clock circuit. An LED really is that sensitive. The current range on your meter also has a fuse. If it was hooked up wrong, the fuse will do its job to protect the meter from melting in your hands.


Your stator might be going out. Its a three phase coil and if one of the windings is burned, you won't have a continuous DC output to keep the battery topped off. Your meter may show full voltage, but that's because most of them read AVERAGE voltage, not RMS (effective) voltage. During that weak pulse out of three, your headlight could be taking your battery a big step back for every two little steps forward from your rectifier.
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post #5 of 12 Old 03-08-2016, 9:41 PM
 
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Re: Charging System Question

Anyone have any problems over charging??? My 03 954 is charging at 16.5/20 DCV
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post #6 of 12 Old 03-09-2016, 1:01 AM
 
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Re: Charging System Question

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Originally Posted by Texasfireblades View Post
Anyone have any problems over charging??? My 03 954 is charging at 16.5/20 DCV
reg/rec failure most likely. id get it fixed cause voltages that high will cook the wiring and connectors n worse.

here is a chart with all the charging system tests including some r/r tests. it def should not be charging at those numbers. a reg/rec's job is to turn a/c into d/c voltage and regulate it down to a usable number for the system. often when they fail you will get over charging which leads to all kinds of other damage.

take my advice and get a good quality unit from ricks motorsports. they are a industry leader in charging system components for our bikes and slapping a china made r/r in there will just leave you back in the same boat youre in now. the ricks is more costly but worth it.

of course my recommendation is to follow the chart and TEST the components before throwing money at a problem. most likely that r/r tho.

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acata...P-PMG-&-RR.pdf

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Last edited by 954Kevin; 03-09-2016 at 1:09 AM.
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post #7 of 12 Old 03-09-2016, 2:17 AM
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Re: Charging System Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by 954Kevin View Post
reg/rec failure most likely. id get it fixed cause voltages that high will cook the wiring and connectors n worse.

here is a chart with all the charging system tests including some r/r tests. it def should not be charging at those numbers. a reg/rec's job is to turn a/c into d/c voltage and regulate it down to a usable number for the system. often when they fail you will get over charging which leads to all kinds of other damage.

take my advice and get a good quality unit from ricks motorsports. they are a industry leader in charging system components for our bikes and slapping a china made r/r in there will just leave you back in the same boat youre in now. the ricks is more costly but worth it.

of course my recommendation is to follow the chart and TEST the components before throwing money at a problem. most likely that r/r tho.

http://www.electrexworld.co.uk/acata...P-PMG-&-RR.pdf
Great advice as always Kevin

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post #8 of 12 Old 03-09-2016, 5:32 AM
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Re: Charging System Question

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Originally Posted by loknload View Post
So, I look at my multi meter (remember I said I'm an idiot when it comes to these things) and it doesn't say amperage anywhere on it. The service manual refers to doing this test with an ameter. My multi meter does have DC current measuring on it, is this the same as amperage? I attempted to put it in series on all three of the settings it has for DC current but it doesn't read anything. It's got settings for 200m, 20m, and 2000 something.
Firstly you need to move the positive (red) test lead into the current terminal on your meter (probably marked as 'Amps' or simmilar), leave the negative (black) test lead in the common terminal.

Always start with the highest current setting on a multimeter if you don't know what current you are measuring, The current ranges on a multimeter are typically fused, so if you start with a low range and put too much current into it, you will blow the fuse and the current measurement will no longer work.

Once you have a measurement on the high setting, you can see if it's safe to turn the range down to get a more precise reading.

ALWAYS PUT THE RED TEST LEAD BACK INTO THE VOLTAGE TERMINAL AFTER YOU ARE FINISHED ON THE CURRENT RANGE. If you leave the test lead in the current terminal and try to measure voltage, you will blow the fuse instantly and possibly damage whatever it is you are measuring.
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post #9 of 12 Old 03-09-2016, 6:07 PM
 
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Re: Charging System Question

this may help. ricks youtube page also has several videos on how to test the charging system components.


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post #10 of 12 Old 03-09-2016, 10:37 PM
 
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Re: Charging System Question

Reg/rec is new stator is new battery is new have already checked 90%of the wiring harness can't find anything wrong have all accessories unplugged and still can't find out what's wrong
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post #11 of 12 Old 03-09-2016, 10:40 PM
 
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Re: Charging System Question

just curious, what is the voltage of the battery with the bike off?

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post #12 of 12 Old 03-09-2016, 10:46 PM
 
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Re: Charging System Question

Have you checked inside the connectors themselves? In my situation the connectors were melted and burnt on the inside, giving me all kinds of weird readings at times.
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