false neutral like a mofo. - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 42 Old 05-18-2003, 12:01 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: false neutral like a mofo.

ok, i've asked this before but the thread was bastardized and i never really got an answer. problem went away for like...the last 13,000 miles so i forgot about it.

now, at 17,000 miles starting 3 days ago, i'm getting a false neutral every time i'm shifting from 3rd to 4th under semi-heavy to hard acceleration. if i'm at 6-7k, no problem but 8k and above it hit's a false neutral EVERY time.


new oil, no moly. (changed oil yesterday, to start there)
chain and sprockets are fine, chain slack is perfect.

old motul had 3400 miles on it, i thought that would be the problem. IF that was the problem would it take more than 1 ride to see if that was the case?

i'll stop typing now or else i'll keep rambling on forever about this.

any ideas?

thanks for not telling me the gears are missaligned(sp), because then you would be the one responsible for giving me a heart attack.

thanks,
bryan
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post #2 of 42 Old 05-18-2003, 1:33 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: false neutral like a mofo.

hey! maybe i can just pretend my bike has 7 gears!
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post #3 of 42 Old 05-18-2003, 2:39 AM
 
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Re: false neutral like a mofo.

Have you tried adjusting the shift lever down? Might help a little.

Andy
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post #4 of 42 Old 05-18-2003, 2:41 AM
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Re: false neutral like a mofo.

Oil changed time maybe, or adjust the linkage for the shoes you are wearing.
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post #5 of 42 Old 05-18-2003, 4:57 AM
 
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Re: false neutral like a mofo.

two words:

ADJUSTO DECLUTCHO!
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post #6 of 42 Old 05-18-2003, 7:59 AM
 
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Re: false neutral like a mofo.

Try adjusting your clutch lever play. *Every time this starts to happen to me I've been able to fix it with an adjustment. *Just this past Wednesday at a Streets of Willow trackday, the bike wouldn't start in gear, but would just crank slowly. *Checked the clutch and sure enough, the lever had about triple the play it should have. *Adjust so you can just get a nickel between the lever and the mount and you should be fine.

The only other thing that has improved my shifts has been going to a GP shift pattern to eliminate the linkage. *This tightened up the sloppy shifting quite a bit.

Robb
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post #7 of 42 Old 05-18-2003, 9:50 AM
 
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Re: false neutral like a mofo.

A nickel's thickness is way too tight and you will burn out your clutch as this prevents the clutch from completely engaging under load. Read the manual, it is exactly correct.

I believe the problem with the false neutral at 17K miles is due to worn shift dogs on fourth gear. Not unusual if the bike is regularly run hard through the gears. You can replace the gear, but if it isn't damaged too much, I would have the entire cluster undercut more aggressively to prevent this from happening elsewhere (which is bound to happen).
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post #8 of 42 Old 05-18-2003, 10:36 AM
 
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Re: false neutral like a mofo.

Quote:
abtech : A nickel's thickness is way too tight and you will burn out your clutch as this prevents the clutch from completely engaging under load. *Read the manual, it is exactly correct.
You had me doubting myself Abtech, so I just went out to the garage to double-check. *Service manual says 3/8' - 13/16' play at the end of the lever. *If I adjust my clutch so that I can fit a nickel all the way into the slot, it gives me exactly 3/8' of play at the end of the lever. *On the tight side of the range for sure, but within range nevertheless. *I usually measure at the end of the lever, but for a quick field fix the nickel thing seems to work for me.

Robb
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post #9 of 42 Old 05-18-2003, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: false neutral like a mofo.

angled shift lever down on friday, made no difference. clutch play is fine too.

####.

thanks for the advice,

bryan
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post #10 of 42 Old 05-18-2003, 4:08 PM
 
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Re: false neutral like a mofo.

Quote:
CanyonCarver : Quote (abtech @ May 18 2003, 5:50am)A nickel's thickness is way too tight and you will burn out your clutch as this prevents the clutch from completely engaging under load. *Read the manual, it is exactly correct.
You had me doubting myself Abtech, so I just went out to the garage to double-check. *Service manual says 3/8' - 13/16' play at the end of the lever. *If I adjust my clutch so that I can fit a nickel all the way into the slot, it gives me exactly 3/8' of play at the end of the lever. *On the tight side of the range for sure, but within range nevertheless. *I usually measure at the end of the lever, but for a quick field fix the nickel thing seems to work for me.

Robb
You will note that 13/16's is over 3/4'. I have found that if you adjust it too close, that a bike without high tension racing springs will begin to slip prematurely and eat both the steels and the friction plates, sometimes notching the basket in the process . . .

Your method only makes the plates pull apart further, which won't have any effect on the shift dogs slipping or make the shift any more final. Clutchless shifting (without any movement of the plates) is the norm for racing. I think his dogs are rounded and need to either be replaced or reground.
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post #11 of 42 Old 05-18-2003, 7:11 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: false neutral like a mofo.

update:

i just did 200 miles of clutchless upshifts and it never missed a beat until i used the clutch. i increased my clutch play before i rode to see if it mattered, it didn't.

since it went into 4th fine without the clutch what should i look at next?

thanks again,

bryan
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post #12 of 42 Old 05-18-2003, 8:28 PM
 
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Re: false neutral like a mofo.

DEcrease
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post #13 of 42 Old 05-19-2003, 3:06 AM
 
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Re: false neutral like a mofo.

How about a Factory detent spring kit while you're at it...

Factory site
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post #14 of 42 Old 05-19-2003, 11:21 AM
 
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Re: false neutral like a mofo.

Quote:
houston954 : update:

i just did 200 miles of clutchless upshifts and it never missed a beat until i used the clutch. i increased my clutch play before i rode to see if it mattered, it didn't. *

since it went into 4th fine without the clutch what should i look at next?

thanks again,

bryan
My 954 has done the same thing since it was new. False neutrals happen more when the bike gets up around 190F or hotter. If it is hotter than 210F it will barely shift into first from neutral.

I just got used to how the bike reacts to different conditions and ride accordingly.
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post #15 of 42 Old 05-19-2003, 10:20 PM
 
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Re: false neutral like a mofo.

Chrome frame sliders should do the trick
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