03_954 ECM? Coils? Weak Battery? - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
Honda FireBlade Discussion of the Honda CBR 900RR, Honda CBR 929RR, Honda CBR 954RR, and Honda CBR 1000RR Motorcycles.

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post #1 of 20 Old 09-01-2007, 11:01 PM Thread Starter
 
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03_954 ECM? Coils? Weak Battery?

Is this a different problem... Outer pipes are not cool anymore. I had posted my original problem and thought I had fixed it with the new plugs... however...
https://www.fireblades.org/forums/hon...ipes-cool.html

SO,,, I added a bunch of troubleshooting I have done and am now begging for someone's help.
  1. Checked EGCV at exhaust pipe and it operated per the manual.
  2. Drained old gas and put new 93 octane with Chevron w/Techron FI cleaner.
  3. Checked the whatyoucallit valve in the airbox. Servo motor works.
  4. Checked output of ignition pulse generoator. 2.2V on red 2p (min 0.7V)
  5. Checked ipg voltage at ECM 2.3V (main 0.7V)
  6. Checked output of cam pulse generator up by direct ingition coils. (2V)
  7. Checked pair solenoid valve 23ohms (22-24ohms).
  8. Checked injector 13.2ohms (10.5-14.5ohms)
  9. Checked injector for internal faults (no continuity=good)
  10. Checked injector V at the injector plugin.. 12V on each.
  11. Checked each direct ignition coil (1ohm pin-pin 11.87kohm pin-plugin)
  12. Checked the pulses from the ignition wire subharness and it looks like I am getting up to 250V out of the harness. (min 100V)
  13. The battery would crank for about 7 seconds (with fuel pump off) before it would slow and just barely turn over. I have had the smart-charger on it for quite some time now.
  14. Pulled and cleaned the plugs. Rechecked the outer 2 looked darker that the inners. Checked gap (0.036in). I did buy the standard recommended iridium plugs the manual suggests (NGK IMR9H-9C if i recall correctly)
Put it all back together.
Started it.
Pulled out of the driveway pretty dang smooth.
Ran down the road for 7 miles and it seemed to hold the rpms good stayed around 5k. Sounded smooth. Turned around, it was a bit jittery in the u-turn. 7 miles back, seemed to do good at 5k, did some acceleration and seemed nice and crisp.

THEN pulled into the subdivision and it started to bog down again at low rpms. Stayed in 1st and went about 50mph... High rpms it smooths out. Low is jerky and powerless.


WTF? Please don't tell me to take it to a dealer. My parents always told me to stay away from that crack.

Last edited by Fisch; 09-02-2007 at 12:39 AM. Reason: Added info / Fixed my G to C in ECM.
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post #2 of 20 Old 09-02-2007, 3:27 PM
 
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Re: 03_954 ECM? Coils? Weak Battery?

First post here. Hello everyone. Great forum/been reading for ages bla bla bla...

This got my attention because I've been experiencing similar problems on my bike for some time now.

After many times taking everything apart and putting it together trying to figure out what is going on, I came to the conclusion that it was running rich.

In addition to all the things you have done, I have swapped the injectors/fuel pressure regulator/ wirring subharnes/ map sensor... All with no results....

After playing around with the power commander I was able to make the bike drivable again but not 100% with it yet.

What I had to do was take out about 20% fuel in all the low rev/low throtle range...

pm me if you want the map to try it assuming you have a PCIII

I'm running an Acrapovic full system and also done the ECU mod for the increased rev limiter(which also makes the bike about 3-5% richer)....

I have not changed the plugs as they look ok. I feel I must find out whats making the bike run so rich and confused...

yesterday I also changed the cam chain tensioner with an APE manual one just in case... Made the bike much quiter.. but still running rich...

When I run the bike with no airbox for testing I notice I have a lot of backflow from the idle valves/holes, it seems that more air is being blown out than being sucked in at idle... Maybe valve timming is a bit out and messes up the MAP readings making the ECU run rich!!!! Any comments?

Bike is Euro spec (I'm in Greece) with about 43.000 km on the odo... It will still pull 290 on the speedo with +2 on the rear sprocket.

will write more later. got to go now.

PLEASE anyone that has experiences this rich running that can offer an insight? I belive our problems are the same....

cheers,
George
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post #3 of 20 Old 09-02-2007, 3:33 PM
 
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Re: 03_954 ECM? Coils? Weak Battery?

What's your battery voltage at the low rpms when it runs bad?
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post #4 of 20 Old 09-02-2007, 4:14 PM
 
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Re: 03_954 ECM? Coils? Weak Battery?

Now,

that is an interesting question.... Never checked it... I suppose I will have to do that, maybe tonight....

Being honest my battery is on its way out. And today while testing it died on me and I had to jump start it with my car...

Can you please elaborate a bit on the theory? Are you suggesting weak battery? or charging system? or both?

How does that make the bike run rich??

Thanks again, you got me thinking now.
George
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post #5 of 20 Old 09-02-2007, 4:19 PM
 
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Re: 03_954 ECM? Coils? Weak Battery?

I've only now noticed point 13 on Fisch's post and that is one thing we probably have in common!!!!

I do not want this to imply that problem is solved... please have your suggestions/comments keep comming.

Geo
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post #6 of 20 Old 09-02-2007, 4:30 PM
 
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Re: 03_954 ECM? Coils? Weak Battery?

I ask, because my cbr600f4 hesitates and possibly misfires when the voltage is low. It has the feeling the timing is retarded. Its a real problem for that bike, but not my cbr1000rr.
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post #7 of 20 Old 09-02-2007, 4:38 PM
 
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Re: 03_954 ECM? Coils? Weak Battery?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dattaway View Post
I ask, because my cbr600f4 hesitates and possibly misfires when the voltage is low. It has the feeling the timing is retarded. Its a real problem for that bike, but not my cbr1000rr.

Well, tomorrow I will get a new battery.

From some of your previous posts, I notice that you know a thing or two about the charging systems of bikes...

Would you happen to know if the 954 is similar to the f4? old style, likely to burn the alternator coils/rectifier?

Will a better rectifier help the bike at all? or is the OEM as good as it gets?

Geo
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post #8 of 20 Old 09-02-2007, 8:55 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 03_954 ECM? Coils? Weak Battery?

I have heard that a weak battery will make stuff act crazy... also, when I am under 3k rpm the lights do go dimmer.

A note on the fuel pressure regulator... on the vacuum side of the fpr, it is a direct connection to both outer throttle bodies. That is where I am leaning now. Maybe a new battery then an new fpr.
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post #9 of 20 Old 09-02-2007, 9:30 PM
 
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Re: 03_954 ECM? Coils? Weak Battery?

I had a bad fuel pressure reg and it was dumping fuel into the two outside cyl. If that rubber membrane gets cracked it will leak into the vacuum lines. Pull the vacume line off the regulater and turn on the ign. and look for gas!
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post #10 of 20 Old 09-02-2007, 11:30 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 03_954 ECM? Coils? Weak Battery?

I pulled the small vacuum line off of the pressure regulator on the fuel rail, it immediately started dripping out. I put the ignition to the on position and when the lines pressurized... it drip drip drip drip drip... key off, it slowed down. Think that is is?

I will find one and give her a go.
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post #11 of 20 Old 09-03-2007, 12:35 PM
 
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Re: 03_954 ECM? Coils? Weak Battery?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisch View Post
I pulled the small vacuum line off of the pressure regulator on the fuel rail, it immediately started dripping out. I put the ignition to the on position and when the lines pressurized... it drip drip drip drip drip... key off, it slowed down. Think that is is?

I will find one and give her a go.
definatelly faulty pressure regulator... change it and I'm guessing that all your problems will be solved....

I wish mine was that simple. I have already changed mine but with no results. It was not leaking at all thought.. I just changed it because I was getting desperate...

I think I will start a new thread to see if I can get a solution to my problem... except if someone has something to suggest now...

The only clue that I can offer to help is that the bike runs 20% rich... and that is an exact number because if I take my previosly used PCIII map and lower all the values by 20, it will work perfectly smooth. That is especially true for the lower rev range, as it appears to run normal on the middle/upper revs... just a bit weak... I will try to lower the values in the whole range and see how it feels...

any suggestions? sorry for the thread hijack.

Geo
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post #12 of 20 Old 09-03-2007, 2:28 PM
 
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Re: 03_954 ECM? Coils? Weak Battery?

Ok,

Battery and charging system checks out ok... No luck there.

I'm now thinking it might be a temp sensor for the ECU??

Does anyone know if the 954 has a different temp sensor for the ECU and another one for the fan/display? If yes I might be running on choke all the time...
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post #13 of 20 Old 09-04-2007, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 03_954 ECM? Coils? Weak Battery?

What about your starter valve(s) sticking? On the trottle body opposite the fuel manifold. Good luck.
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post #14 of 20 Old 09-04-2007, 9:22 PM
 
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Re: 03_954 ECM? Coils? Weak Battery?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fisch View Post
What about your starter valve(s) sticking? On the trottle body opposite the fuel manifold. Good luck.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I do not think its that because the starter valves do not move(or at least I can no see how) when the bike is wamed up and operational. As a matter of fact, its so hot here that they do not move at all, as the wax cold start unit never gets cold enought to need to raise the idle for starting....

Having said that I did wiggle them and them move freely if needs be.

My problems seems to be more across the rev spectrum rather than just the low revs.

It just seems that at low revs the bike misbehaves more because its just is more sensitive to air/fuel changes, unlike the higher rev range that can mask changes in air/fuel ratio. Further more my butt is not a dyno so I do not think I, or most normal people, would feel 5-6 bhp difference up there, especially if it happened gradually and I got used to it....

Not had a chance to try the temp sensor yet.

Anyone ever had a problem with that? Its got three wires going to it, but my manual is not very clear on that part... Does anyone know what each wire does and an easy procedure to test it on bike and without getting burn marks all over my arms trying to get to it with a hot engine?

The temprature sensor I'm suspecting is the one of the thermostat, just under the throttle body/fuel rail....

looking forward for your comments.
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post #15 of 20 Old 09-15-2007, 9:17 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: 03_954 ECM? Coils? Weak Battery?

SOLUTION:

FUEL PRESSURE REGULATOR
and
BATTERY
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