Brembo pads on 929? - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 14 Old 08-04-2008, 5:25 AM Thread Starter
 
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Brembo pads on 929?

Hey everyone,

Just did another track day this weekend and again I'm suffering from the same problem on my 929...massive brake fade!

Each track session is 30min long which roughly translates into 12 laps or so. The last 3 laps are a complete waste because I start to get massive brake fade. Even switching to 3 finger braking doesn't reduce the strain of having to pull the lever so damned hard.

My "braking" setup is this:
  • HEL Braided brake lines (2 lines)
  • EBC HH Sintered Pads (used to have OEM Honda before)
  • Motul RBF600 brake fluid

I've heard this is being caused by the pad heating up way beyond its operating temperature, meaning it doesn't brake as efficiently as before.

I've also been told that Brembo pads would perform better within this temperature envelope...has anyone tried these before?
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post #2 of 14 Old 08-04-2008, 9:15 AM
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Re: Brembo pads on 929?

Lots of things contribute to fade but essentially it's due to heat.
If the pads are dragging on the disc they create heat. Floating discs are designed to move around and knock the pads away from the discs to minimise drag.
Lift the front wheel and spin it to see if it's dragging. If it is remove one caliper and see if it's any better.
If not remove both.
If it's still dragging crack the axle nut and check it again.
If it improves replace the bearings.
If removing the calipers improves then you need to clean the pistons and flush the system out thoroughly.
Heavily worn discs and pads also cause fade because there is less metal to do the heat-soaking.
Fade can also be due to mixing different brake compounds without cleaning the rotors. Brake material builds up on the disc surface and may not be compatible with a different compound. If it started happening immediately after changing pad compound try cleaning the discs.

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post #3 of 14 Old 08-04-2008, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Brembo pads on 929?

Hi,

Thanks for your reply!

I went from standard Honda OEM pads to EBC HH without cleaning the discs and they've got about 24,000KM on them...I bet they need a good clean!

The brake fade starts happening about 8-10 laps into a track day session. I'll try to post a video of this weekend's track session so you can see the heavy braking.
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post #4 of 14 Old 08-04-2008, 11:13 AM
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Re: Brembo pads on 929?

I race a 929 myself so I understand heavy braking :-)

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #5 of 14 Old 08-04-2008, 3:50 PM
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Re: Brembo pads on 929?

Bladeracer gave good advice. You might also try a set of the Carbone Lorraine C43 race pads.

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post #6 of 14 Old 08-04-2008, 6:16 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Brembo pads on 929?

I'm working on getting a small video off my DV camcorder so I can post on Youtube!

Speaking of carbon based pads, how much "better" are they in terms of feel and performance compared to sintered (even HH rated) pads?
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post #7 of 14 Old 08-04-2008, 6:22 PM
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Re: Brembo pads on 929?

I have some of mine on there.
YouTube - ausgixxerpilot's Channel
I ran carbon pads once on my GSXR and the only difference I noticed was the price :-)
I normally run EBC HH's since they're available anywhere, last forever, aren't expensive, don't eat the discs and they work great wet or dry.
I'm not all that fussy though and have run lots of other brands when I couldn't find EBC.

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post #8 of 14 Old 08-04-2008, 10:45 PM
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Re: Brembo pads on 929?

The C43 pads have phenomenal bite without fade...and they wear like stone. They're a little more pricey (try buying HRC pads) but well worth the price.

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post #9 of 14 Old 08-04-2008, 11:39 PM
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Re: Brembo pads on 929?

I can't recall ever suffering fade on the 929 even after twenty-minute track sessions.
I'll look into the C43's and consider trying them next season.

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post #10 of 14 Old 08-05-2008, 5:58 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Brembo pads on 929?

Finally managed to get the video posted on Youtube!

Its a slow-ish lap because I had the DV camera mounted on the tank but I do need to loose about 10KG of weight and gain more confidence in my tyres.

Each time I follow a faster rider into a corner I've got this voice in the back of my mind which keeps telling me "he's on the sticky rubber and you're on standard road tyres....don't push your luck!".

Anyway, here's the video: YouTube - Estoril GP Track - Lap on a Honda CBR 929RR Fireblade
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post #11 of 14 Old 05-10-2009, 6:45 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Brembo pads on 929?

Digging up another old thread!

Another track day gone by and after having followed "bladeracer"'s advice, I've cleaned my brake discs thoroughly with wire wool and brake cleaner (which is basically a powerful degreaser) but my brakes are still crap for the last few laps of a 30min session.

A quick recap of my brake setup:

- Motul RBF 600 which is changed before every track day.
- EBC HH pads
- Standard rotors
- Standard master cylinder (read https://www.fireblades.org/forums/hon...der-929-a.html to know why)

Lets assume I can pack in 12 laps in this session:

--> Laps 1-9: After warming up the pads before a few corners, the braking power is there although the initial bite isn't brilliant but its probably because I'm not being too aggressive with the lever.
--> Laps 10-12: There is no sponginess in the brake lever, it remains hard and I can almost feel the pads pressing up against the discs but its like having pads made of wood....the pressure is there but the friction coefficient is almost gone. I need to start using 3 finger braking to get more force on the lever.

I've spoken to a few of the mechanics on hand at the track day who help out and work for some of the racing teams and their guess is that the pads are just heating up too much and starting to go beyond their working heat envelope.

They suggested some top of the line Brembo pads which are way too expensive although some slightly cheaper ones are also available. I personally don't want to be lead by whatever they want to "sell" so I've done some research and found some Ferodo pads which seem to be quite good, the Ferodo XRAC: http://www.ferodoracing.com/it/motor...ay_cooling.htm

Thoughts?
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post #12 of 14 Old 05-10-2009, 7:15 AM
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Re: Brembo pads on 929?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJackal View Post
A quick recap of my brake setup:

- Motul RBF 600 which is changed before every track day.
- EBC HH pads
- Standard rotors
- Standard master cylinder (read https://www.fireblades.org/forums/hon...der-929-a.html to know why)

Lets assume I can pack in 12 laps in this session:

--> Laps 1-9: After warming up the pads before a few corners, the braking power is there although the initial bite isn't brilliant but its probably because I'm not being too aggressive with the lever.
--> Laps 10-12: There is no sponginess in the brake lever, it remains hard and I can almost feel the pads pressing up against the discs but its like having pads made of wood....the pressure is there but the friction coefficient is almost gone. I need to start using 3 finger braking to get more force on the lever.

I've spoken to a few of the mechanics on hand at the track day who help out and work for some of the racing teams and their guess is that the pads are just heating up too much and starting to go beyond their working heat envelope.
I really doubt there is anything at all wrong with the HH's.
My warm up consists of late and hard braking into every turn on the warm up lap to heat the brakes, fork oil and tyre (and also getting a feel for the track grip) as well as banging the brake several times on the last couple of hundred meters coming onto the grid. Then it's full on for the race so you certainly don't need to warm them up for several laps.

If the pads aren't biting then I would also agree that it's due to heat.
Does the wheel spin freely when cold?
Does it still spin freely after you get the brakes up to temp?

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post #13 of 14 Old 05-10-2009, 7:51 AM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Brembo pads on 929?

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Originally Posted by bladeracer View Post
If the pads aren't biting then I would also agree that it's due to heat.
Does the wheel spin freely when cold?
Does it still spin freely after you get the brakes up to temp?
It does spin freely enough in both cases so I don't think its dragging too much to cause sufficient heat build-up.

I'll have a go at changing the pads for the next track outing but I'll leave these EBC ones in for the road as they're more than enough....no constant heavy braking on the way to work!
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post #14 of 14 Old 05-10-2009, 10:27 AM
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Re: Brembo pads on 929?

I've never used EBC pads, but your description sounds like they're the reason for the lack of feel. You should consider trying another brand. I run HRC pads on the track and they have excellent grip and feel. The only down side is the cost and longevity.

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