2009 Fireblade - CBR1000RR - Page 2 - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
Honda FireBlade Discussion of the Honda CBR 900RR, Honda CBR 929RR, Honda CBR 954RR, and Honda CBR 1000RR Motorcycles.

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post #16 of 343 Old 08-07-2008, 7:51 PM
 
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Re: 2009 Fireblade - CBR1000RR

I don't know about bikes but on cars brake by wire is diff then ABS,TCS or the like. Brake by wire like throttle by wire uses a sensor on the lever usually for stroke, speed and force. This info is transferred to a computer that looks at vehicle speed, acceleration, maybe lean angle on a bike, G force etc. It then decides how hard and fast you want to brake from the lever inputs and how much force it can apply to the brakes to achieve this result. In cars it actually works damn good and of course if the electronics fail it still operates like a normal system much like ABS does. The draw back as I see it is added complexity, added cost, added weight and less likely common owners will be able to mod it. Personally I think maybe you could just tear it all off and retro fit normal brakes. Just like abs and traction control in cars it probably will make the bikes easier to ride and safer. Think about going into a corner hot grabbing too much brake and WAM! OH! but wait instead of low siding into a telephone pole the bike slows down but the wheels never brake traction and you ride through the turn. Or maybe you grab some brakes to stop at a light you didn't see turn red till too late but instead of the rear locking up over the patch of coolant in the road the computer transfers more force to the front and you stop in time.
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post #17 of 343 Old 08-08-2008, 11:18 AM
 
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Re: 2009 Fireblade - CBR1000RR

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Originally Posted by Doomwitha929 View Post
...Brake by wire like throttle by wire uses a sensor on the lever...info is transferred to a computer...It then decides how hard and fast you want to brake from the lever inputs and how much force it can apply to the brakes to achieve this result. In cars it actually works damn good and of course if the electronics fail it still operates like a normal system much like ABS does....Think about going into a corner hot grabbing too much brake and WAM! OH! but wait instead of low siding into a telephone pole the bike slows down but the wheels never brake traction...
Brake by wire is similar to drive-by-wire throttle which several bikes (e.g, R6) already have). The throttle cable or brake line is replaced by a wire, and (as stated) the computer decides how much throttle/brake to apply.

However many bikes with throttle cables are ALREADY essentially drive-by-wire. The cable turns a potentiometer attached to the throttle bodies, which in turn tells the computer how much fuel to inject. There's a physical cable but the computer has the final decision.

Likewise the upcoming Honda sportbike ABS -- despite the "brake by wire" nomenclature -- apparently retains hydraulic lines and front/rear master cylinders.

Instead of running directly to the front/rear calipers, the hydraulic lines go to a computerized control box which controls and modulates the hydraulic force sent to the calipers.

This is probably a conservative design choice vs an end-to-end brake-by-wire system. This way a computer or electronic failure can revert to manual braking, which would be impossible with only a wire from brake lever to computer.

See:
Honda Worldwide | June 9, 2008 "Honda Announces World's First Electronically-Controlled “Combined ABS” for Super Sport Bikes"
Honda Worldwide | Technology Close-up

Performance-oriented motorcycle ABS is very different from car ABS. Unlike cars they don't necessarily buzz or vibrate when activated. They can be very unobtrusive.

However motorcycle ABS (whether brake-by-wire or not) does not understand bank angles or the traction "pie chart" -- how much grip is used by cornering vs how much remains for braking. They will not generally save you from over-braking in a corner.

It will save you from over-braking in a straight line. The Honda system also dynamically proportions braking force between front and rear wheel. This reduces front end dive and shortens braking distance.
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post #18 of 343 Old 08-08-2008, 6:15 PM
 
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Re: 2009 Fireblade - CBR1000RR

sounds like the brake by wire system is just like automotive ABS as far as still using hydraulics and a modulator that just controls the pressure in the lines to the calipers. Really that wouldnt be brake by wire at all so I am guessing they just use the term for marketing sake. From what you are saying about the abs only really only working in a straight line it dosent sound like its worth it. Stopping in a straight like is not usually the problem but I guess if they are building it someone must think there is a need for it.
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post #19 of 343 Old 08-09-2008, 11:29 AM
 
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Re: 2009 Fireblade - CBR1000RR

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Originally Posted by Doomwitha929 View Post
sounds like the brake by wire system is just like automotive ABS...Really that wouldnt be brake by wire...abs only really only working in a straight line it dosent sound like its worth it. Stopping in a straight like is not usually the problem...
The definition is tricky. Early automotive and some current bike ABS were hydraulic/mechanical. There was no computer involved.

The upcoming Honda ABS uses hydraulics and master cylinders, but the hydraulic lines go to a computerized box which determines brake application. In this sense it's brake by wire.

That's also how many "fly by wire" airliners work -- they still use hydraulic lines but they're routed to/from a module which determines control surface movement. The term "fly by wire" or "drive by wire" doesn't necessarily mean an end-to-end wire with no hydraulics.

However many modern automotive ABS systems use a microprocessor-based ABS control module. It interrupts the hydraulic path and determines braking force. Yet we don't generally call those "brake by wire". So you're right in that sense the new Honda system doesn't seem dramatically different from this.

Working only in a straight line is definitely worth it. Unlike a non-ABS car where over-braking may cause a slight skid, over-braking in a bike often causes a crash. Many bike accidents are caused by over-braking and going down, or under-braking and hitting an obstacle.

The best riders on earth -- MotoGP racers -- occasionally over-brake and go down. They're way better than us, but they make mistakes. ABS isn't permitted in MotoGP for regulatory reasons, not because it wouldn't work.
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post #20 of 343 Old 08-11-2008, 10:15 PM
 
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Re: 2009 Fireblade - CBR1000RR

I am new to this forum but with my limited knowledge I would say, for 2009:

1) fix oil usage problems
2) fix transmission problems (read about this problem of shifting from 2nd to 3rd??)
3) make black and white UK color scheme available in US!!!


Cheers
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post #21 of 343 Old 08-11-2008, 10:49 PM
 
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Re: 2009 Fireblade - CBR1000RR

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Originally Posted by CBRPJK View Post
I am new to this forum but with my limited knowledge I would say, for 2009:

1) fix oil usage problems
2) fix transmission problems (read about this problem of shifting from 2nd to 3rd??)
3) make black and white UK color scheme available in US!!!


Cheers
I'd say those and just new colors will be what we'll all get.

if you can't convince them, confuse them.
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post #22 of 343 Old 08-12-2008, 9:25 AM
 
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Re: 2009 Fireblade - CBR1000RR

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Originally Posted by CBRPJK View Post
I am new to this forum but with my limited knowledge I would say, for 2009:

1) fix oil usage problems
2) fix transmission problems (read about this problem of shifting from 2nd to 3rd??)
3) make black and white UK color scheme available in US!!!


Cheers
If we get all three of these I'll be giddy like a schoolgirl!
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post #23 of 343 Old 08-12-2008, 4:37 PM
 
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Re: 2009 Fireblade - CBR1000RR

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBRPJK View Post
I am new to this forum but with my limited knowledge I would say, for 2009:

1) fix oil usage problems If it is indeed a manufacturer problem.
2) fix transmission problems (read about this problem of shifting from 2nd to 3rd??) Haven't heard of or experienced this.
3) make black and white UK color scheme available in US!!! BFD - Not interested.


Cheers
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post #24 of 343 Old 08-14-2008, 11:19 PM
 
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Re: 2009 Fireblade - CBR1000RR

Dont forget the power loss to US bikes. We want out power back!!!!
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post #25 of 343 Old 08-14-2008, 11:32 PM
 
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Re: 2009 Fireblade - CBR1000RR

both headlights on for low beam!!!!
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post #26 of 343 Old 08-15-2008, 2:50 PM
 
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Re: 2009 Fireblade - CBR1000RR

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Originally Posted by laubin View Post
both headlights on for low beam!!!!
Can't see 'em when your riding. So ... why is that important?
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post #27 of 343 Old 08-15-2008, 10:16 PM
 
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Re: 2009 Fireblade - CBR1000RR

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Originally Posted by laubin View Post
both headlights on for low beam!!!!
Actually had someone stop, wait for me to take off my helmet to tell me I had a burned out headlight!
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post #28 of 343 Old 08-15-2008, 11:46 PM
 
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Re: 2009 Fireblade - CBR1000RR

The pipe needs changed for sure its hard to find a custom pipe for this year....and i would llike to see red..white..and black paint on the bike it looks real race like....maybe a better headlight on it also at least a brighter one anyways....rather than that this bike is running good i sold mine hopeing to get the new 09 sometime soon....so i await.........
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post #29 of 343 Old 08-16-2008, 8:06 AM
 
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Re: 2009 Fireblade - CBR1000RR

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Originally Posted by 08silvercbr View Post
Actually had someone stop, wait for me to take off my helmet to tell me I had a burned out headlight!
To which you reply "you are a moron".
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post #30 of 343 Old 08-16-2008, 4:28 PM
 
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Re: 2009 Fireblade - CBR1000RR

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Originally Posted by CBRCrazze View Post
The pipe needs changed for sure its hard to find a custom pipe for this year....and i would llike to see red..white..and black paint on the bike it looks real race like....maybe a better headlight on it also at least a brighter one anyways....rather than that this bike is running good i sold mine hopeing to get the new 09 sometime soon....so i await.........
Wait...you had an 08, then sold it, all in hopes that Honda will make the 09 better?

I doubt very seriously that Honda will make enough changes to the bike that selling a brand new 08 would make any sense.

As for finding a pipe, I guess its just personal preference but I've seen at least 4 different pipes that I wouldnt mind having, once I feel like the bike needs more power. As far as that goes, I plan on keeping my exhaust stock for a while, but I do plan on a PCIII and IM to get my top end back.

As for the headlight I really dont see an issue here, I ride with my high beams on all the time, which is more than enough light for me to ride at night or day with I would like some angel eye lenses with a stock bike, all the aftermarket kits are pretty cheaply made.

Ah, the ever lasting battle for paint schemes that everyone will love. I tried to get the all black, but they ran out of them, so I got my next best choice in the Red and Silver, pics cant do this color scheme justice, in person this scheme is gorgeous. But once again for Honda to make everyone happy they will need to have about 100 different colors, and then another 20 race replicas. If the colors dont float your boat but you really want the bike for what it can do, save up for a custom paint job, like the guy who got his Repsol Scheme done professionally. If they bring the white and black to the states, I will gladly not care, since everyone and their grandmother will be on one, and then my bike will be the rarer color. So no matter what colors they add, whatever color we dont get in one region will be wanted in another, it the nature of the beast.

On that note, long live the Blade in whatever iterations Honda dreams up
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