Regular Oil vs. Synthetic - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
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post #1 of 31 Old 08-15-2008, 12:52 AM Thread Starter
 
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Regular Oil vs. Synthetic

I've got an '07 1000 Blade with 5000kms on it. I took it in for its first post break-in oil change the other day and asked my mechanic to put synthetic oil in it. He subsequently told me that he'd checked with Honda, and that they recommended the use of regular motorcycle oil rather than synthetic, because synthetic oils are so slippery that they don't allow the pistons to set properly. I don't have a clue about any of this stuff, so I'd like to canvas everyone's opinion. With thanks in advance,

mooli1
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post #2 of 31 Old 08-15-2008, 1:12 AM
 
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Re: Regular Oil vs. Synthetic

5000km, you're good to go, the engine should be broken in by now. The newer vettes come with synthetic from the factory. I can't see what would be the difference, they're both internal combustion engines with pistons and piston rings moving up and down cylinders.

if you can't convince them, confuse them.
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post #3 of 31 Old 08-15-2008, 1:18 AM
 
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Re: Regular Oil vs. Synthetic

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Originally Posted by CBR929RE View Post
5000km, you're good to go, the engine should be broken in by now. The newer vettes come with synthetic from the factory. I can't see what would be the difference, they're both internal combustion engines with pistons and piston rings moving up and down cylinders.
, after the first 100 miles i change to synthetic, did it on my rc and was over 28000 when it was stolen from me.
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post #4 of 31 Old 08-15-2008, 3:57 AM
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Re: Regular Oil vs. Synthetic

Regular oil is recommended by a lot of manufacturers for when the bike is NEW and hasn't yet undergone break-in. Synthetic oil is considered to be so low-friction and the molecules so small that if used during break-in the engine parts which would normally wear together, won't. At least, this is how I understand it. After the break-in, might as well go for full synthetic, especially if you hope to keep the bike for a long time.

That being said, I think it's a pretty true fact that the vast majority of bikes get totaled in accidents of some form or another long before the engines actually suffer from mechanical faults.
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post #5 of 31 Old 08-15-2008, 5:31 AM
 
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Re: Regular Oil vs. Synthetic

synthetic. 5k is more than enough for the engine to be broken in.
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post #6 of 31 Old 08-15-2008, 5:41 AM
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Re: Regular Oil vs. Synthetic

I've done over 450,000kms on semi-synthetics and have yet to find any fault with them.
Clean oil is what matters. Use whichever you prefer but change it regularly. If it's coming out black it's been in there too long.
I buy bulk filters and twenty litre drums so I never have any excuse to have filthy oil in an engine and I use the same oil in all my cars and bikes.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #7 of 31 Old 08-15-2008, 9:14 AM
 
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Re: Regular Oil vs. Synthetic

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Originally Posted by -Z- View Post
Regular oil is recommended by a lot of manufacturers for when the bike is NEW and hasn't yet undergone break-in. Synthetic oil is considered to be so low-friction and the molecules so small that if used during break-in the engine parts which would normally wear together, won't. At least, this is how I understand it. After the break-in, might as well go for full synthetic, especially if you hope to keep the bike for a long time.

That being said, I think it's a pretty true fact that the vast majority of bikes get totaled in accidents of some form or another long before the engines actually suffer from mechanical faults.
From my understanding the moleules of regular oil are larger which in turn aids in the break down of the gears meshing together.
On a car you don't have the break down from the gears like a cycle has.
The sny oil might aid in cooling but the regular oil aids in the life of the trans and cam wear. Alot of builders will mix the two oils together to get both properties.

The only thing I can see is that heat(friction) is a power robber so mixing the two oils might be the way to go. I like the Maxima oils with their high zinc and Phosphate content.

Last edited by pwrpapa; 08-15-2008 at 9:19 AM.
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post #8 of 31 Old 08-15-2008, 9:18 AM
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Re: Regular Oil vs. Synthetic

Why wouldn't they just use semi-synth oils rather than buying both and mixing them?

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #9 of 31 Old 08-15-2008, 9:26 AM
 
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Re: Regular Oil vs. Synthetic

I don't think you can buy an SL and SJ or SG oils in semi-syn, can you?
I don't know.

Last edited by pwrpapa; 08-15-2008 at 3:30 PM.
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post #10 of 31 Old 08-15-2008, 9:31 AM
 
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Re: Regular Oil vs. Synthetic

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Originally Posted by mooli1 View Post
I've got an '07 1000 Blade with 5000kms on it. I took it in for its first post break-in oil change the other day and asked my mechanic to put synthetic oil in it. He subsequently told me that he'd checked with Honda, and that they recommended the use of regular motorcycle oil rather than synthetic, because synthetic oils are so slippery that they don't allow the pistons to set properly. I don't have a clue about any of this stuff, so I'd like to canvas everyone's opinion. With thanks in advance,

mooli1
Ask the mechanic to see the Service Bulletin or Service Letter from Honda that says synthetic oil cannot be used for breakin. That myth has been floating around for years and I thought it had gone away. Apparently not, please read the link below:

Myths


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post #11 of 31 Old 08-15-2008, 10:02 AM
 
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Re: Regular Oil vs. Synthetic

Here we go again, another oil thread. I'm hearing a lot of half truths being bandied about as fact on this thread. First thing, oil is oil. Period. Whether it's straight mineral oil (dino oil) or a synthetic it's basically the same stuff, long chain hydrocarbon molecules. Synthetics have uniform molecular size compared to regular dino oils. As a crude analogy, imagine rolling a heavy pallet across your garage floor covered in marbles. A lot easier to roll it than to slide it right? That is, in effect how lubricants work. The oil molecules (marbles) act like little ball bearings and reduce friction. OK, with that in mind, with synthetic oil imagine all the molecules are the same size whereas with a dino oil they are all different diameters. With the dino oil, the larger molecules (marbles) carry a disproportionate amount of the load and rapidly are reduced in size(shear down) while the smaller molecules (marbles) carry very little of the load initially. The larger molecules create more friction and will rapidly shear down (lose viscosity) under load. The synthetic, having molecules of the same size, spreads the load evenly and reduces shearing and friction forces. The synthetic will "stay in grade" longer, meaning retain a greater amount of it's original viscosity in service thus the extended drain interval. Two ways to create a synthetic of uniform molecular size, polymerization and isomerization. Both work it's just that one process (polymerization) requires more energy and the oil will cost more. The original Mobil 1 was made by polymerization. Polymerization is essentially taking tiny ethane gas molecules as building blocks and adding them together to create a larger oil molecule of consistent size. Shell Rotella synthetic is made with a process called slack wax isomerization . In isomerization, you begin with a dino oil with all different size molecules and by using heat and pressure you break down the larger molecules until they are more or less all of equal size. In the process you destroy the parafins(waxy substance) that leads to nasty deposits in your engine. I like what one gentleman said, most bikes are destroyed in accidents long before they suffer mechanical problems related to engine oil selection. Run the proper viscosity recommended by the manufacturer i.e. 10W40 for example and change the oil and filter regularly and you will be fine.

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post #12 of 31 Old 08-15-2008, 10:10 AM
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Re: Regular Oil vs. Synthetic

From that link "You should break in your engine with conventional oil, then switch to a synthetic oil like Mobil 1." the myth is the "_should_ switch to a synthetic" after run-in. I've yet to find any reason why I _should_ run full-synth.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #13 of 31 Old 08-15-2008, 10:33 AM
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Re: Regular Oil vs. Synthetic

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Originally Posted by pwrpapa View Post
I don't think you can buy an SL and SJ oils in semi-syn, can you?
Shell SX4 I use is semi-synthetic SJ.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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post #14 of 31 Old 08-15-2008, 11:21 AM
 
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Re: Regular Oil vs. Synthetic

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Originally Posted by bladeracer View Post
From that link "You should break in your engine with conventional oil, then switch to a synthetic oil like Mobil 1." the myth is the "_should_ switch to a synthetic" after run-in. I've yet to find any reason why I _should_ run full-synth.
It reads "Myth........You should break in your engine with conventional oil, then switch to a syntehtic oil like Mobil 1." Then it goes on to say you can break in on a synthetic and lists the high performance automobile mfgs like Porsche, Mercedes-Benz, Chevrolet Corvette etc. that do just that.

I'm just asking you to have an open mind here for a moment bladeracer. Do you think all those mfgs of high performance vehicles haven't done their homework and have specified synthetic oil for no real reason? With teams of engineers and scientists performing studies and controlled tests on their product doesn't it make sense that they just might know something we don't about lubricating performance under extreme conditions? Or conversely, they might just all have their heads up their bloody arses and just like to piss away their money on expensive gimmicks.


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post #15 of 31 Old 08-15-2008, 11:24 AM
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Re: Regular Oil vs. Synthetic

I have the open mind. That's why I tried it myself but it caused me problems that I never experienced before then or since so I went back to the stuff that does the job _perfectly_ well with zero problems.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
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