WhatĚs involved in changing out a 954 cam/timing chain? - Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org
Honda FireBlade Discussion of the Honda CBR 900RR, Honda CBR 929RR, Honda CBR 954RR, and Honda CBR 1000RR Motorcycles.

User Tag List

 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 15 Old 10-15-2008, 1:32 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: 10-30-2004
Posts: 196
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Whatís involved in changing out a 954 cam/timing chain?

Whatís involved in changing out a 954 cam/timing chain? (I already have a brand new tensioner installed)

- Should you really replace the cam sprockets & ever the crank sprocket?
- Can the work be done without removing the cam shafts (ie slacken the chain at the crank sprocket)

Do I need any special tools?
Can it be done with the engine block still in the bike?
How long should it take for a decent DIY mechanics to do?

My chain is totally fubbared & I am waiting for it to go at any minute. It has at least 60k hard miles & the tensioner wound fuller in it is still rattling all around the place.

Cheers guys
King Kenny is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 Old 10-15-2008, 1:53 PM
Global Moderator
 
bladeracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-14-2003
Location: Perth, WestOz
Age: 53
Posts: 32,034
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 229
                     
Re: Whatís involved in changing out a 954 cam/timing chain?

Have you got a manual?
I've yet to see cam sprockets on a bike engine that have worn enough to need replacement. Unless they have obvious signs of wear or damage I'd leave them alone. You might want to replace the guides though if they're worn.
You don't have to remove the engine.
I can't think of any special tools.
Perhaps an hour or two.
Remove valve cover.
Remove clutch cover.
Turn motor to set cam sprockets in line with the head for easy reference.
Remove tensioner.
I'm not sure if you have to remove the pulse generator rotor.
Drop the camchain off the crank sprocket.
Take the chain off the cam sprockets.
You _might_ be able to drop the chain into the cases and pull it over the pulse generator rotor. If not, remove the pulse generator rotor and pull the chain up trhough the tunnel to remove it.
Drop new chain down the cam tunnel and over the cam sprockets.
Hook the bottom of the chain over the crank sprocket.
The _front_ run of the chain must be tight and if yours is really worn it may require turning the crank back a little to get the correct tooth. You may have to move the cams very slightly as well. The manual shows you the correct position for the crank and cams. Do _not_ turn the crank more than a few degrees or you will hit pistons and valves!
Put the pulse generator rotor back on the crank.
Keeping the _front_ run of the camchain tight as well as across the top of the cam sprockets insert the tensioner.
Release the tensioner spring. Slowly turn the motor a few times watching that the chain doesn't jump any teeth.
You _might_ have to remove the sprockets from the cams if there isn't enough room to pull the chain through the tunnel but I think there's enough room.
Put top and side covers back on.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
bladeracer is offline  
post #3 of 15 Old 10-16-2008, 3:09 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: 10-30-2004
Posts: 196
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Re: Whatís involved in changing out a 954 cam/timing chain?

Thanks Bladeracer!

I've ordered the cam chain & I'll have it for early next week. I'd say the guides might be worn but I probably wont replace them - can you replace them with the engine insitu anyway??

Also the engine is blasting out a puff of smoke which I crack the throttle which leads me tho think that the rings are well worn even though it still give 170 PSI on the compression tests. Or maybe the valve guides are worn??

Anyway maybe a fresher engine is the way forward in the future - you get a fresh CCT, timing chain, spark plugs, piston rings, valve seal, clutch, etc. all in the one process

Will let you know how the surgery goes



https://www.fireblades.org/forums/hon...tml#post716797

https://www.fireblades.org/forums/hon...tml#post720821
King Kenny is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 15 Old 10-16-2008, 3:19 PM
Global Moderator
 
bladeracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-14-2003
Location: Perth, WestOz
Age: 53
Posts: 32,034
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 229
                     
Re: Whatís involved in changing out a 954 cam/timing chain?

The guides can be done while you're doing the camchain.
The front and rear guides are held by bolts down near the crank.
The top guide is inside the valve cover.
Worn valve guide seals are usually apparent when braking from high speed as the engine is sucking oil past the seals into the combustion chambers. I raced with a guy once that actually had _no_ valve guide seals (can't recall what his reason was) and it was a smoke screen following him into corners but fine everywhere else.
When you checked compression did you check leakdown as well?

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
bladeracer is offline  
post #5 of 15 Old 10-16-2008, 4:33 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: 10-30-2004
Posts: 196
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Re: Whatís involved in changing out a 954 cam/timing chain?

Didnt do a leakdown test mate - was pissed off enough with doing the valve shims that time

Dont think there's any smoke when decelerating but my mates say they see a puff off grey every time I crack the throttle when we're on hard rides. Also the bike is using a bit of oil - about 100ml every 1000km I'd say. Will give my mate the bike for a few km's & I'll follow him to see what the real story is.

Would flushing an engine cleaner through at the next oil change be any use??
King Kenny is offline  
post #6 of 15 Old 10-16-2008, 10:26 PM
Global Moderator
 
bladeracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-14-2003
Location: Perth, WestOz
Age: 53
Posts: 32,034
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 229
                     
Re: Whatís involved in changing out a 954 cam/timing chain?

It's quite possible your old girl has the highest mileage of all 954's on here - so look after her :-)
It certainly sounds like the rings are worn but due to the mileage I wouldn't consider it worth going in to replace them unless you're ready to totally rebuild the engine. When you're doing the camchain it'd be worth measuring your cam lobes for wear as well. If the edges of the lobes are rounding off they may also be hollowing out the lifters which would make accurate clearance adjustment very difficult.
Can't comment of the flush as I've never used such things myself.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
bladeracer is offline  
post #7 of 15 Old 10-17-2008, 12:32 AM
 
Join Date: 08-21-2007
Location: Dublin Ireland
Posts: 314
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 13
 
Re: Whatís involved in changing out a 954 cam/timing chain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Kenny View Post
Whatís involved in changing out a 954 cam/timing chain? (I already have a brand new tensioner installed)

- Should you really replace the cam sprockets & ever the crank sprocket?
- Can the work be done without removing the cam shafts (ie slacken the chain at the crank sprocket)

Do I need any special tools?
Can it be done with the engine block still in the bike?
How long should it take for a decent DIY mechanics to do?

My chain is totally fubbared & I am waiting for it to go at any minute. It has at least 60k hard miles & the tensioner wound fuller in it is still rattling all around the place.

Cheers guys
They don't sound like questions from a competant mechanic!
(replace cam sprockets??)
dude just pay somebody to fix it or buy an engine cause you will break yours anyway!
NDMBlackBlade is offline  
post #8 of 15 Old 10-17-2008, 4:45 PM
 
Join Date: 07-13-2008
Location: Utah
Posts: 559
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 12
 
Re: Whatís involved in changing out a 954 cam/timing chain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NDMBlackBlade View Post
They don't sound like questions from a competant mechanic!
(replace cam sprockets??)
dude just pay somebody to fix it or buy an engine cause you will break yours anyway!
Dont be a sissy, id much rather do engine work myself than pay someone else to do it. If your careful Its pretty hard to break your engine changing a cam chain...
Evil R is offline  
post #9 of 15 Old 10-18-2008, 6:51 AM
 
Join Date: 08-21-2007
Location: Dublin Ireland
Posts: 314
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 13
 
Re: Whatís involved in changing out a 954 cam/timing chain?

true but if you do not know what you are doing it is very easy!!!
let us know how you get on!
NDMBlackBlade is offline  
post #10 of 15 Old 10-18-2008, 7:07 AM
Global Moderator
 
bladeracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-14-2003
Location: Perth, WestOz
Age: 53
Posts: 32,034
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 229
                     
Re: Whatís involved in changing out a 954 cam/timing chain?

Nobody knows what they're doing the first time they do something but possible failure isn't sufficient reason not to try to learn it :-)
Besides, I've known mechanics that have earned a living from doing such things for years without being competent...

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
bladeracer is offline  
post #11 of 15 Old 10-20-2008, 7:25 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: 10-30-2004
Posts: 196
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Re: Whatís involved in changing out a 954 cam/timing chain?

Sprockets wear with chains dont they... Dont see why its a dumb question

I'm all for DIY - how else will you learn anything

I have already changed out the gearbox, reshimmed the engine, helicoiled the no. 2 sparkplug , replaced steering head bearings, rebuilt my forks after the seals blew, changed out my shock, installed the PC3, balanced the throttle bodies, do my own brake pad & tyre changes/balancing & numerous outher sh1t I've forgotten about

I think I'm about as competent as many a mechanic I've met.

I'll check the tolerances on the cam lobes when the rocker cover is off & re-check the shim clearances. Will also check the plugs & throttle synchronisation. Might ven take a few pics aswell.
King Kenny is offline  
post #12 of 15 Old 11-09-2008, 7:48 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: 10-30-2004
Posts: 196
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Re: Whatís involved in changing out a 954 cam/timing chain?

Well the bike is back on the road now & everything seems good!

Engine feels more responsive alright which is what I expected. Only gave is a short test ride tonight to see if all was ok but I give it a good blast tomorrow.

Checked the valve clearances & throttle synchronisation all is good. Sparkplugs looked ok but 3 plugs need to be gapped back to 0.8mm. Cam lobes were in spec save for 1 intake cam which was just out by 0.02mm - not worth bothering with really.

What interests me is that the bottom end seems a little worse but that does make sense. If the timing was late due to the streched cam chain it should make the bottom stronger & the top weaker as it would shift the peak torque down the RPM range. This is exactly how the bike felt the last few months.

Also am interested in the fuel consumption - will it improve I wonder??

Honda gripe again:
After putting the engine back together I try start the bike. It wont start properly, coughing, backfiring, not idling. Fcuk I think & strip it back down to check the timing again since I couldnt see the intake cam marks easily. Took out the camshaft again & put it all back together triple chiecking the timing & although it started it still would idle or run properly. Took it out for a quick run & it was terrible - lurching, agressive, etc. Got a 1 blink FI warning & checked the manual. Something to do with the map sensor. Turned out I had the MAP & TP sensor plugs switched. Swapped them over & wholla - bike ran perfect. Why oh why can you mix these up. I mean evey other plug on the bike is unfcukupable with different shapes & colours, etc. Here a 2 sensors right beside each other & they are the same shape plug

Just pissed off cos I was chasing a problem for hours that shouldnt have occured. Rant over







King Kenny is offline  
post #13 of 15 Old 11-10-2008, 11:02 AM
 
Join Date: 04-03-2008
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 48
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Re: Whatís involved in changing out a 954 cam/timing chain?

60k miles? That's pretty cool. Mine only has 20k on it. Does it still run well and put decent power out? Also how's the bodywork and finish stood up to the test of time? I need to get some frame protectors or something cos the paint on the beam rails is going shiny where my knees touch. Glad the camchain job went well anyway.
Si Blade is offline  
post #14 of 15 Old 09-02-2010, 2:22 PM
 
Join Date: 02-19-2009
Location: East Coast
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 0
 
Re: Whatís involved in changing out a 954 cam/timing chain?

bringing up an old thread! ....

question. i had to take the head off my 954 to reset a retaining clip on one of my valves. Now when i put the head back on, the cams and cam chain are too tight. not sure why this is but the chain doesnt have enough slack in it so that the camshafts can lay down easily. am i missing something? The tensioner is not even installed. I can look down through the tunnel and see the guides are where they should be and the chain has no kinks in it and its not caught on anything .....
repsolracer22 is offline  
post #15 of 15 Old 09-03-2010, 6:13 AM
Global Moderator
 
bladeracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-14-2003
Location: Perth, WestOz
Age: 53
Posts: 32,034
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Reputation Power: 229
                     
Re: Whatís involved in changing out a 954 cam/timing chain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOLDINGITBIG View Post
bringing up an old thread! ....

question. i had to take the head off my 954 to reset a retaining clip on one of my valves. Now when i put the head back on, the cams and cam chain are too tight. not sure why this is but the chain doesnt have enough slack in it so that the camshafts can lay down easily. am i missing something? The tensioner is not even installed. I can look down through the tunnel and see the guides are where they should be and the chain has no kinks in it and its not caught on anything .....
The cams will be sitting up because the lobes are resting on the valve lifters.

"I won't forget that ride for a while. Maybe you're right. Living fast might be worth the final crash. Maybe that's the secret you fliers know." - Flight of the Intruder
bladeracer is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org > Honda Motorcycle Models > Honda FireBlade

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Honda Motorcycles - FireBlades.org forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
A valid e-mail address is REQUIRED. You will not have access to any site features until you activate your account using the activation e-mail that is sent to this address.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How much will an out of spec cam chain affect performance? King Kenny Honda FireBlade 2 09-10-2008 9:59 AM
Cam Chain / Timing Chain Part no. King Kenny Honda FireBlade 2 05-15-2008 8:52 PM
need help changing the cam chain tensioner on my 1996 cbr 600 F3 eric 600F3 Honda CBR 600 1 08-10-2007 4:42 PM
Timing Chain Tensioner worn out.... cornerblade Honda FireBlade 6 08-03-2006 9:21 PM
Timing and Timing chain questions Blur929RR Honda FireBlade 14 04-25-2006 10:13 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome